The death of MAGA
-
Read the GOP quotes in this article. Disgusting power-hungry prima donnas. I fault Biden for any number of things, but this trip is surely not one of them.
-
"Republicans attack Joe Biden"
OK...
Which Republicans?
You have to go to paragraph #9 where you find out which Republicans:
- Marjorie Taylor Greene
- Scott Perry (who???)
- Don Jr.
Three. The article names three. One, of whom is not even a government figure (any more). The article says "Some House Republicans." I guess two out of 220 qualifies as "some."
But the headline implies that ALL the GOP is critical.
I agree with what you said about prima donnas, but, c'mon Salon, try to be at least a bit fair.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
-
MTG, Trump, and election theft messaging are all bad for republican business. As for the mindless virtue narrative around war hawking Ukraine, I don't mind seeing it questioned. This particular way of questioning it seems like a vacuous cheap shot.
Education is extremely important.
-
MTG, Trump, and election theft messaging are all bad for republican business. As for the mindless virtue narrative around war hawking Ukraine, I don't mind seeing it questioned. This particular way of questioning it seems like a vacuous cheap shot.
As for the mindless virtue narrative around war hawking Ukraine, I don't mind seeing it questioned.
Please provide some concrete examples of what you refer to as “the mindless virtue narrative around war hawking Ukraine”.
I have perhaps heard a few - invariably from the mouths of Canadian ministers of state, who are rather dense when it comes to diplomacy and military matters - but not much out of the USA of any note.
-
As for the mindless virtue narrative around war hawking Ukraine, I don't mind seeing it questioned.
Please provide some concrete examples of what you refer to as “the mindless virtue narrative around war hawking Ukraine”.
I have perhaps heard a few - invariably from the mouths of Canadian ministers of state, who are rather dense when it comes to diplomacy and military matters - but not much out of the USA of any note.
@Renauda said in The death of MAGA:
As for the mindless virtue narrative around war hawking Ukraine, I don't mind seeing it questioned.
Please provide some concrete examples of what you refer to as “the mindless virtue narrative around war hawking Ukraine”.
I have perhaps heard a few - invariably from the mouths of Canadian ministers of state, who are rather dense when it comes to diplomacy and military matters - but not much out of the USA of any note.
Whenever a person who questions the US involvement in the war is dismissed with a quick accusation of "putin book licker" or "blinkered nationalist", that would be the mindless virtue narrative in action. You can watch the reactions to Tucker Carlson's thoughts right here on TNCR, for one small example. But it happens everywhere.
Education is extremely important.
-
@Renauda said in The death of MAGA:
As for the mindless virtue narrative around war hawking Ukraine, I don't mind seeing it questioned.
Please provide some concrete examples of what you refer to as “the mindless virtue narrative around war hawking Ukraine”.
I have perhaps heard a few - invariably from the mouths of Canadian ministers of state, who are rather dense when it comes to diplomacy and military matters - but not much out of the USA of any note.
Whenever a person who questions the US involvement in the war is dismissed with a quick accusation of "putin book licker" or "blinkered nationalist", that would be the mindless virtue narrative in action. You can watch the reactions to Tucker Carlson's thoughts right here on TNCR, for one small example. But it happens everywhere.
-
@Renauda said in The death of MAGA:
As for the mindless virtue narrative around war hawking Ukraine, I don't mind seeing it questioned.
Please provide some concrete examples of what you refer to as “the mindless virtue narrative around war hawking Ukraine”.
I have perhaps heard a few - invariably from the mouths of Canadian ministers of state, who are rather dense when it comes to diplomacy and military matters - but not much out of the USA of any note.
Whenever a person who questions the US involvement in the war is dismissed with a quick accusation of "putin book licker" or "blinkered nationalist", that would be the mindless virtue narrative in action. You can watch the reactions to Tucker Carlson's thoughts right here on TNCR, for one small example. But it happens everywhere.
I see.
Seems to me Carlson has parroted a number of Kremlin disinformation mantras that would at least qualify him as a useful idiot. Take for example his piece last spring accusing the US of working with the Ukrainians in bio warfare labs in Ukraine. The story came out first on RT and Carlson picked it up and ran hard with it. Pretty sure he even recruited Lt. Col. Gabbard to help him substantiate the claims. Story was bullshit from the start.
So no, attacking Carlson for his brand of yellow journalism is not mindless virtue signalling. It is calling him to account. He, like Gabbard and your current mentor at large, Dr. Peterson, make great press dissing this and dissing that US policy regarding Ukraine, but offer nothing in the way of alternative solutions that amount to anything other than appeasing the Kremlin.
On the other hand the US senators who are asking for cost accounting on aid and assistance to Ukraine is responsible governance. Likewise, their inquiry as to a coherent end game.
I agree with them on both counts although at this stage there really is only one coherent endgame and objective for the West to focus upon; namely the cessation of hostilities and complete withdrawal of all Russian forces from Ukrainian territories to the borders as they were in 2014. It’s not all that difficult to articulate.
-
What I never hear the anti-Ukraine folks address is “and then what”?
Do they think that Putin will be satisfied and become a peaceful member of the international community after absorbing most or all of Ukraine?
Or do they realize he’ll go on to the Baltics, etc, but they’re just ok with him rebuilding the Russian empire?
They never say which.
-
Seriously though it would be easier to engage them seriously rather than dismiss them as Putin’s little bitches if they at least addressed the real question, which is not just about some country most Americans never thought about until a year ago, rather it’s about Putin rebuilding the Russian Empire or at least a substantial part of it.
But they never address it. At least not that I’ve heard.
-
"Republicans attack Joe Biden"
OK...
Which Republicans?
You have to go to paragraph #9 where you find out which Republicans:
- Marjorie Taylor Greene
- Scott Perry (who???)
- Don Jr.
Three. The article names three. One, of whom is not even a government figure (any more). The article says "Some House Republicans." I guess two out of 220 qualifies as "some."
But the headline implies that ALL the GOP is critical.
I agree with what you said about prima donnas, but, c'mon Salon, try to be at least a bit fair.
@George-K said in The death of MAGA:
"Republicans attack Joe Biden"
OK...
Which Republicans?
You have to go to paragraph #9 where you find out which Republicans:
- Marjorie Taylor Greene
- Scott Perry (who???)
- Don Jr.
Three. The article names three. One, of whom is not even a government figure (any more). The article says "Some House Republicans." I guess two out of 220 qualifies as "some."
But the headline implies that ALL the GOP is critical.
I agree with what you said about prima donnas, but, c'mon Salon, try to be at least a bit fair.
It's mostly a tempest in a teapot, for the hungry eyes that want to read it. They took the quotes from the people they wanted to take them from. The other side does the same thing (although maybe not quite as bad).
As for support for the war in Ukraine...Among the general public, it's going down. Hasn't reached critical mass, but it might. And it's not because of Tucker or any other pundit. It's because many Americans are wondering why the Europeans don't take care of a European problem. Or maybe it's because they are more worried about China. Or maybe they are scared of an escalation where U.S. or NATO troops get sucked in.
Regardless, unless Biden can make the case and sell the goods, support will continue to erode.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
-
@Horace I don't know what Tucker said about it. I don't watch him. But if he's in any way defending Putin, then he's dead to me.
@Mik said in The death of MAGA:
@Horace I don't know what Tucker said about it. I don't watch him. But if he's in any way defending Putin, then he's dead to me.
There are plenty of people on this forum who would tell you he defends Putin on the regular. It's not always clear what that means in the context of what he said, or why he said it.
-
@Mik said in The death of MAGA:
@Horace I don't know what Tucker said about it. I don't watch him. But if he's in any way defending Putin, then he's dead to me.
There are plenty of people on this forum who would tell you he defends Putin on the regular. It's not always clear what that means in the context of what he said, or why he said it.
-
It's not always clear what that means in the context of what he said, or why he said it.
You’re probably right.
https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2022/oct/02/tucker-carlson-ukraine-vladimir-putin-propaganda
@Renauda said in The death of MAGA:
It's not always clear what that means in the context of what he said, or why he said it.
You’re probably right.
https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2022/oct/02/tucker-carlson-ukraine-vladimir-putin-propaganda
I'm sure he's said some stupid, wrong, and/or tribally motivated things before regarding the Ukraine war. I'm no more familiar with what he says than anybody else on this forum who reads what we link to about him. But I gather that the directionality of his commentary is to question the US involvement. That can be done in more or less reasonable ways. It does seem to be a foundation of his viewpoint that it's not the end of the world if Russia takes Ukraine, or other non-NATO countries.
So I would characterise the two sides as follows:
- US should do anything to keep Ukraine out of Putin's hands, no matter what, escalating as needed.
- US should allow Putin to rebuild Russia out of non-NATO countries, and keep to itself militarily.
Personally I would think #1 is the more appropriate course of action. Much of the commentary I've heard from those who seem ok with #2, at least in theory, is to be very clear what #1 means, when taken to an extreme that Putin seems willing to take it.
-
@George-K said in The death of MAGA:
"Republicans attack Joe Biden"
OK...
Which Republicans?
You have to go to paragraph #9 where you find out which Republicans:
- Marjorie Taylor Greene
- Scott Perry (who???)
- Don Jr.
Three. The article names three. One, of whom is not even a government figure (any more). The article says "Some House Republicans." I guess two out of 220 qualifies as "some."
But the headline implies that ALL the GOP is critical.
I agree with what you said about prima donnas, but, c'mon Salon, try to be at least a bit fair.
It's mostly a tempest in a teapot, for the hungry eyes that want to read it. They took the quotes from the people they wanted to take them from. The other side does the same thing (although maybe not quite as bad).
As for support for the war in Ukraine...Among the general public, it's going down. Hasn't reached critical mass, but it might. And it's not because of Tucker or any other pundit. It's because many Americans are wondering why the Europeans don't take care of a European problem. Or maybe it's because they are more worried about China. Or maybe they are scared of an escalation where U.S. or NATO troops get sucked in.
Regardless, unless Biden can make the case and sell the goods, support will continue to erode.
@Jolly said in The death of MAGA:
It's because many Americans are wondering why the Europeans don't take care of a European problem.
How in the hell can you possibly look at what's actually happening and claim it's not our problem. It's our problem whether we want it to be or not.
Please love yourself.
-
@Jolly said in The death of MAGA:
It's because many Americans are wondering why the Europeans don't take care of a European problem.
How in the hell can you possibly look at what's actually happening and claim it's not our problem. It's our problem whether we want it to be or not.
@Aqua-Letifer said in The death of MAGA:
@Jolly said in The death of MAGA:
It's because many Americans are wondering why the Europeans don't take care of a European problem.
How in the hell can you possibly look at what's actually happening and claim it's not our problem. It's our problem whether we want it to be or not.
And to reinforce your point, stability in Europe been the cornerstone of US foreign policy since 1945. When the war ended there was no continental power in Europe other than USSR. The US was then the only counterbalance to what appeared to be an expanding Soviet Union. To contain that threat the US introduced first the Marshall Plan then, the initiated the formation of NATO. At its core the alliance was structured so that the USA would take over the traditional continental power roles that France and Germany had played prior to WWII. Britain would remain in its traditional role as a major maritime power in the European theatre with only narrowly defined roles for its land forces on the continent.
Fast forward to present day and that established continental power role, now to counterbalance an expanding Russia, remains in place. The difference now is that Russia having invaded Ukraine in 2014 and again one year ago, is threatening sovereign former Soviet and Warsaw Pact states, now members of NATO and destabilizing all of Europe in the process. Indeed whether some like it or not guaranteeing European security and stability is a vital interest of the US and its foreign policy.
-
@Jolly said in The death of MAGA:
It's because many Americans are wondering why the Europeans don't take care of a European problem.
How in the hell can you possibly look at what's actually happening and claim it's not our problem. It's our problem whether we want it to be or not.
@Aqua-Letifer said in The death of MAGA:
@Jolly said in The death of MAGA:
It's because many Americans are wondering why the Europeans don't take care of a European problem.
How in the hell can you possibly look at what's actually happening and claim it's not our problem. It's our problem whether we want it to be or not.
Without a declaration of war by Hitler, I'm not sure Roosevelt would have sent troops to Europe in 1942.
And things were much dicier at that time. Beware the words of Washington...
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
