Alec Baldwin Charged
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wrote on 15 Apr 2024, 23:37 last edited by
@Mik said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
. No mens rea. Baldwin had every expectation that the gun was safe.
Mens rea has nothing to do with it. If he had known the gun was unsafe, he would either not have fired it (in a scene where there was no camera rolling, by the way), or be on trial for murder, not homicide.
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wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 00:03 last edited by
I'd forgotten about this.
Gutierrez also took a selfie with her holding guns.
In a bathroom.
In a bar (where firearms are prohibited).She's under indictment for that.
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wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 00:09 last edited by
I bet most other movie armorers are with the judge on this one. They are probably disgusted at this blight on their profession.
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@Mik said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
. No mens rea. Baldwin had every expectation that the gun was safe.
Mens rea has nothing to do with it. If he had known the gun was unsafe, he would either not have fired it (in a scene where there was no camera rolling, by the way), or be on trial for murder, not homicide.
wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 00:10 last edited by@George-K said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
@Mik said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
. No mens rea. Baldwin had every expectation that the gun was safe.
Mens rea has nothing to do with it. If he had known the gun was unsafe, he would either not have fired it (in a scene where there was no camera rolling, by the way), or be on trial for murder, not homicide.
I think it does.
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wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 00:22 last edited by
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@George-K said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
@Mik said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
. No mens rea. Baldwin had every expectation that the gun was safe.
Mens rea has nothing to do with it. If he had known the gun was unsafe, he would either not have fired it (in a scene where there was no camera rolling, by the way), or be on trial for murder, not homicide.
I think it does.
wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 00:30 last edited by@Mik said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
@George-K said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
@Mik said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
. No mens rea. Baldwin had every expectation that the gun was safe.
Mens rea has nothing to do with it. If he had known the gun was unsafe, he would either not have fired it (in a scene where there was no camera rolling, by the way), or be on trial for murder, not homicide.
I think it does.
Mens Rea would be important on murder 1-3 charges, but not on involuntary homicide charges. These are charges based on negligence, not intent.
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wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 00:32 last edited by
The drunk driver doesn't plan on killing anyone, but can be found criminally liable.
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wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 00:42 last edited by
Yes, driving drunk.
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wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 00:49 last edited by Doctor Phibes
@George-K said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
The drunk driver doesn't plan on killing anyone, but can be found criminally liable.
As in most things, I'm not in any way an expert, but couldn't somebody argue that Baldwin's case is closer to somebody servicing his car and failing to attach the brakes correctly? Is the fact that a movie gun was supplied with live rounds really be something he should be expected to predict?
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wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 00:54 last edited by
I don’t think so. It’s why you hire an armorer.
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@George-K said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
The drunk driver doesn't plan on killing anyone, but can be found criminally liable.
As in most things, I'm not in any way an expert, but couldn't somebody argue that Baldwin's case is closer to somebody servicing his car and failing to attach the brakes correctly? Is the fact that a movie gun was supplied with live rounds really be something he should be expected to predict?
wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 00:55 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
Is the fact that a movie gun
It's not a "movie gun." It's a real pistol.
he should be expected to predict?
Yes. Watch the video that I posted. He knew it was a real gun. He cocked the hammer and pulled the trigger...in a scene that was not being filmed. They were blocking it.
Also, the SAG code of conduct (or whatever it's called) states that in the case of firearms on the set, the ultimate responsibility lies with the person holding the weapon. That's not a legal argument, but it's something that Baldwin, as a member of the SAG, should be aware of.
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wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 00:59 last edited by
Can we just go ahead and agree that always assuming a real gun is loaded without personally proving otherwise is a good idea?
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Can we just go ahead and agree that always assuming a real gun is loaded without personally proving otherwise is a good idea?
wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 01:05 last edited by Doctor Phibes@Aqua-Letifer said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
Can we just go ahead and agree that always assuming a real gun is loaded without personally proving otherwise is a good idea?
Well yeah, we're also always told to never ever point a gun at anybody except in self-defence even when it isn't loaded, but this is a movie, and they have to point guns at each other.
I guess we'll see what happens in court.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
Can we just go ahead and agree that always assuming a real gun is loaded without personally proving otherwise is a good idea?
Well yeah, we're also always told to never ever point a gun at anybody except in self-defence even when it isn't loaded, but this is a movie, and they have to point guns at each other.
I guess we'll see what happens in court.
wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 01:18 last edited by George K@Doctor-Phibes said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
I guess we'll see what happens in court.
The problem(s) include Baldwin's constantly changing story. When interrogated by police, the first time, he said that he had extensive experience with firearms. During a second interview, he said that he really didn't know about them.
He claimed he never pulled the trigger, which in a single-action revolver, is impossible to happen without cocking it first.
His comments to police (and press) are inconsistent and at times contradictory. Prosecutor Morrissey will not be kind.
Finally, speaking to mens rea, Baldwin's mind was somewhere else when Hutchins was being airlifted off the set. He was discussing his upcoming vacation with his family. Of course, that's legally irrelevant, but it goes to show you what an a-hole Baldwin is.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
I guess we'll see what happens in court.
The problem(s) include Baldwin's constantly changing story. When interrogated by police, the first time, he said that he had extensive experience with firearms. During a second interview, he said that he really didn't know about them.
He claimed he never pulled the trigger, which in a single-action revolver, is impossible to happen without cocking it first.
His comments to police (and press) are inconsistent and at times contradictory. Prosecutor Morrissey will not be kind.
Finally, speaking to mens rea, Baldwin's mind was somewhere else when Hutchins was being airlifted off the set. He was discussing his upcoming vacation with his family. Of course, that's legally irrelevant, but it goes to show you what an a-hole Baldwin is.
wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 01:22 last edited by Doctor Phibes@George-K said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
The problem(s) include Baldwin's constantly changing story.
Yeah, he certainly doesn't appear to be the brightest bulb, and it's no real surprise that he's an asshole. God forbid, but if this should ever happen to me I'd be letting my lawyer do all the talking.
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@George-K said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
The problem(s) include Baldwin's constantly changing story.
Yeah, he certainly doesn't appear to be the brightest bulb, and it's no real surprise that he's an asshole. God forbid, but if this should ever happen to me I'd be letting my lawyer do all the talking.
wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 01:35 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
I'd be letting my lawyer do all the talking
Yup. And that was one of the problems with Gutierrez's representation. On her 2nd police interview, he was useless.
New Mexico law requires an attorney who is licensed to practice in New Mexico. However, there's an "exception" whereby the "main" attorney can, by virtue of reciprocity, have attorneys from other states partake in the trial.
Baldwin has retained a wheelbarrow-full of New York lawyers to "assist" in his defense. The problem is that, according to one blogger, none of these lawyers are criminal defense attorneys. They do civil litigation.
Looking at their filings for Baldwin, they appear to be more than a little incompetent.
But, time will tell.
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wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 01:43 last edited by
@Mik said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
I don’t think so. It’s why you hire an armorer.
Agreed, if there weren’t multiple reports of gross negligence and ignoring basic protocols across the set. There had been several gun discharges on set already. https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set
If I see my delivery drivers drinking, but let them go out on delivery anyway, then I bear some significant responsibility for any damage they cause.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
I'd be letting my lawyer do all the talking
Yup. And that was one of the problems with Gutierrez's representation. On her 2nd police interview, he was useless.
New Mexico law requires an attorney who is licensed to practice in New Mexico. However, there's an "exception" whereby the "main" attorney can, by virtue of reciprocity, have attorneys from other states partake in the trial.
Baldwin has retained a wheelbarrow-full of New York lawyers to "assist" in his defense. The problem is that, according to one blogger, none of these lawyers are criminal defense attorneys. They do civil litigation.
Looking at their filings for Baldwin, they appear to be more than a little incompetent.
But, time will tell.
wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 01:55 last edited by@George-K said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
Looking at their filings for Baldwin, they appear to be more than a little incompetent.
But, time will tell.
Using lawyers of questionable competence and an inability to keep one's mouth shut appears to be fairly commonplace at the moment.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
Can we just go ahead and agree that always assuming a real gun is loaded without personally proving otherwise is a good idea?
Well yeah, we're also always told to never ever point a gun at anybody except in self-defence even when it isn't loaded, but this is a movie, and they have to point guns at each other.
I guess we'll see what happens in court.
wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 01:57 last edited by Aqua Letifer@Doctor-Phibes said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
Can we just go ahead and agree that always assuming a real gun is loaded without personally proving otherwise is a good idea?
Well yeah, we're also always told to never ever point a gun at anybody except in self-defence even when it isn't loaded, but this is a movie, and they have to point guns at each other.
I guess we'll see what happens in court.
You're saying he couldn't have checked it? How?
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
Can we just go ahead and agree that always assuming a real gun is loaded without personally proving otherwise is a good idea?
Well yeah, we're also always told to never ever point a gun at anybody except in self-defence even when it isn't loaded, but this is a movie, and they have to point guns at each other.
I guess we'll see what happens in court.
wrote on 16 Apr 2024, 02:45 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Alec Baldwin Charged:
Can we just go ahead and agree that always assuming a real gun is loaded without personally proving otherwise is a good idea?
Well yeah, we're also always told to never ever point a gun at anybody except in self-defence even when it isn't loaded, but this is a movie, and they have to point guns at each other.
I guess we'll see what happens in court.
As Hutchins isn’t an actress, there would have been no reason for him to be pointing it at her for the scene. In fact, that she was shot instead of the actors in the scene would indicate that he was actively not aiming at anyone in the scene. Unfortunately, he wasn’t aware of where he was aiming.
And actors don’t point guns at each other in the movies. It’s these wonderful things called angles…