So About This Russian Bounty Thing
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@Loki This is a matter of global politics. Complex, between countries with a very long and difficult relationship.
You really think it's a matter of one newspaper telling lies? Thee and me will likely not be told the true bill, and we shouldn't be.
And why the Pentagon, anyway? The only reason I can think of is that they are the messenger for the spooks, who do not interact with the public. Also as it should be.
There is also reason to believe that the intelligence community doesn't trust Trump and would withhold intel from him for reasons of security. If that is so, then the Pentagon can put out all the memos it wants; they may or may not be true, and you can believe whatever floats your boat.
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@jon-nyc said in So About This Russian Bounty Thing:
@George-K I get the whitehouse says the President wasn’t briefed. Loki was implying the pentagon says the same thing, but I think he’s just wrong about what the pentagon was asserting.
Here's the DoD statement which says there's no corroborating evidence to support the allegations. Presumably they're talking about the "bounty" allegations:
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@jon-nyc said in So About This Russian Bounty Thing:
Is the pentagon claiming there’s no ‘corroborating evidence’ that Trump was briefed? Or nothing to corroborate the intelligence reports of Russia paying bounties?
I would assume the latter, in which case it seems entirely unrelated to whether Trump is lying or not about being briefed.
Okay I was conflating two issues but the quality of the intelligence matters and the NYT printed it and Pentagon said not so.
So I want to see a show down between the NYTand Pentagon but I expect the NYT will duck it. Prove me wrong.
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I haven’t read the NYT piece but I still think you’re conflating to totally independent questions.
Let X = Intelligence reports
Let Y = corroborating evidence of X.NYT (and now AP): ‘Trump was briefed on X’
Pentagon: ‘we have no Y’
How are the NYT and the Pentagon at odds?
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@jon-nyc said in So About This Russian Bounty Thing:
I haven’t read the NYT piece but I still think you’re conflating to totally independent questions.
Let X = Intelligence reports
Let Y = corroborating evidence of X.NYT (and now AP): ‘Trump was briefed on X’
Pentagon: ‘we have no Y’
How are the NYT and the Pentagon at odds?
Jesus. What is most important? If the NYT doesn’t have good info on a bounty everything else is bullshit. Got it?
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@Loki said in So About This Russian Bounty Thing:
@jon-nyc said in So About This Russian Bounty Thing:
I haven’t read the NYT piece but I still think you’re conflating to totally independent questions.
Let X = Intelligence reports
Let Y = corroborating evidence of X.NYT (and now AP): ‘Trump was briefed on X’
Pentagon: ‘we have no Y’
How are the NYT and the Pentagon at odds?
Jesus. What is most important? If the NYT doesn’t have good info on a bounty everything else is bullshit. Got it?
Your PDS was preventing you from thinking clearly. Don’t take it out on me for pointing it out.
Its still the case that the pentagon announcement has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not Trump is lying about being briefed.
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@jon-nyc said in So About This Russian Bounty Thing:
@Loki said in So About This Russian Bounty Thing:
@jon-nyc said in So About This Russian Bounty Thing:
I haven’t read the NYT piece but I still think you’re conflating to totally independent questions.
Let X = Intelligence reports
Let Y = corroborating evidence of X.NYT (and now AP): ‘Trump was briefed on X’
Pentagon: ‘we have no Y’
How are the NYT and the Pentagon at odds?
Jesus. What is most important? If the NYT doesn’t have good info on a bounty everything else is bullshit. Got it?
Your PDS was preventing you from thinking clearly. Don’t take it out on me for pointing it out.
Its still the case that the pentagon announcement has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not Trump is lying about being briefed.
How could he be briefed in a meaningful way on non corroborated evidence? Mr President we heard a rumor and we can’t validate it. That’s a briefing? Haha
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I don't think its standard practice for intelligence agencies to vet their briefings through the pentagon, and wait until the pentagon corroborates it or not before reporting. I'd bet a decent sum that isn't the case.
Even if you take the Pentagon completely out of it, your point still strikes me as incorrect:
What is most important? If the NYT doesn’t have good info on a bounty everything else is bullshit.
Even if intelligence turns out not to be true, we still have a valid interest in knowing what the presidents response was when confronted with it by an intelligence service that found it sufficiently credible to report it to him.
Allow me to present a cartoonish example just to make the point:
John Brennan: "Mr President, we have reason to believe Al Qaeda hid a suitcase nuclear weapon under the streets of Dallas"
Obama: "Dallas? Meh. Hey Jack, is Marine One here yet? I want to get a golf game in before it gets too hot"
next day
John Brennan: "Sir, good news, it turns out we were wrong about the nuclear weapon."
Surely we would and should judge Obama negatively even though the next days news meant his inattention had no price.
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It’s really important for us to get to the bottom of the info and if it is credible and verifiable. Hopefully the NYT is sharing it’s sources and helping out. So far the Pentagon has come up with nothing.
So what is the quality of what the NYT has? Let’s see it. Sunshine and all that.
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@jon-nyc said in So About This Russian Bounty Thing:
I don't think its standard practice for intelligence agencies to vet their briefings through the pentagon, and wait until the pentagon corroborates it or not before reporting. I'd bet a decent sum that isn't the case.
Even if you take the Pentagon completely out of it, your point still strikes me as incorrect:
What is most important? If the NYT doesn’t have good info on a bounty everything else is bullshit.
Even if intelligence turns out not to be true, we still have a valid interest in knowing what the presidents response was when confronted with it by an intelligence service that found it sufficiently credible to report it to him.
Allow me to present a cartoonish example just to make the point:
John Brennan: "Mr President, we have reason to believe Al Qaeda hid a suitcase nuclear weapon under the streets of Dallas"
Obama: "Dallas? Meh. Hey Jack, is Marine One here yet? I want to get a golf game in before it gets too hot"
next day
John Brennan: "Sir, good news, it turns out we were wrong about the nuclear weapon."
Surely we would and should judge Obama negatively even though the next days news meant his inattention had no price.
Sure the NYT will prove your case. Let’s see it. They started it, let’s see the next card. Or let’s deflect. You are a good spokesman for changing the question.
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@jon-nyc said in So About This Russian Bounty Thing:
Bullshit Loki. Your thinking was muddled. Full stop.
You even admitted it, and then oddly continued with the same error.
Let me make this easy for you. If there is credible and verifiable evidence that russia paid a bounty on American deaths and Trump didn’t do anything about it he should be impeached immediately. Full stop. I don’t even care if he lied.
So get your evidence for me.
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Former national security advisor John Bolton reportedly told administration officials that he personally briefed President Donald Trump on the alleged bounties Russia paid to Taliban-backed fighters to kill U.S. troops in Afghanistan, the Associated Press reported Monday evening.
The new information suggests senior White House officials were aware of the alleged bounties a year earlier than previously reported by the AP, the New York Times, and other outlets. Trump, White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany, and current national security advisor Robert O’Brien have all denied the reports.
McEnany said that though low level intelligence officials were monitoring the information, the intelligence community had yet to form a consensus on the information’s veracity and therefore had not yet specifically briefed the president on their findings.
“While the White House does not routinely comment on alleged intelligence or internal deliberations, the CIA director, NSA, national security adviser and the chief of staff can all confirm that neither the president nor the vice president were briefed on the alleged Russian bounty intelligence,” she told reporters at Monday’s press briefing. “There is no consensus within the intelligence community on these allegations, and, in effect, they are dissenting opinions from some in the intelligence community with regards to the veracity of what’s being reported, and the veracity of the underlying allegations continue to be evaluated.”
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The president gets a one page threat assessment every morning. Sometimes they read it, sometimes they skim it and sometimes they get an aide to go through it for them.
As for the NYT story...Unless they name their source, I no longer pay attention yo rumor printed as fact.
