Hey Horace (and other D&D folks)
-
I mean, was there any other major content creators other than D&D Beyond other than the YouTubers?
@LuFins-Dad said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
I mean, was there any other major content creators other than D&D Beyond other than the YouTubers?
Oh my God man where have you been.
Yes, there are kind of a fucking lot of them.Here's how it used to work:
OGL 1.0 allowed players and fans to use D&D’s System Reference Document (SRD), which is a generalized and watered down version of their system and rules. If you make anything under this OGL, and you don't use anything outside the SRD, all rights are yours. You can sell it, promote it, do whatever you like to it, keep the rights to yourself.In addition to Critical Role, have you heard of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic? Or Pathfinder? Those were built on the OGL 1.0 system. Not to mention countless Kickstarters and homebrews that middle-tier publishers sell. Live streams, graphic novels, commercialized fan art, podcasts, etc., etc. could all reference SRD material and be in keeping with the OGL.
If you think that’s a stupid business idea, then you don’t know nearly as much about D&D as you thought. It’s literally what brought D&D from the brink in 2000 and turned it into the most popular TTRPG in the world.
The OGL 1.0 also mentioned explicitly that no update to future OGLs would ever affect 1.0 retroactively. So if D&D came up with an updated SRD for the new stuff they’ve created, but the rules were more stringent, you could still just use OGL 1.0 and its attached SRD to make content.
A leaked version of the OGL 1.1 has said that:
- We’re reneging on literally all of that
- You have to submit an application to use anything we make, which includes regular updates that you must provide proving how much money you're making on your work
- We can say yes or no at any time without any reason given,
- We own all the rights to everything you make. So we can start selling it ourselves, then revoke your license.
- If this seems like a bad deal for you, well, you waive any rights to litigation, so, sorry. Oh and
- You can only make static text documents and sell those, provided we agree and we don’t decide to steal it. No more video games, no live streams of people playing, no software platforms like Dungeon Fog to help you manage your campaigns, no podcasts of people playing, nothing like that.
What this really is, is a pre-emptive strike to promote their VTT. That's how they see their company moving forward. They dropped about a half dozen unnamed video game projects and pulled all their money over to developing the VTT.
-
@LuFins-Dad said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
I mean, was there any other major content creators other than D&D Beyond other than the YouTubers?
There is a computer game called Solasta that I heard may have been one of WotC’s triggers.
@Horace said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
@LuFins-Dad said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
I mean, was there any other major content creators other than D&D Beyond other than the YouTubers?
There is a computer game called Solasta that I heard may have been one of WotC’s triggers.
I've played it. It's fun.
-
If you're not doing anything in the next five minutes or so...
My guess is they'll totally balk now that word's gotten out. I'll be very surprised if they release anything.
EDIT: lol and now it's at 3pm. So far. I bet they do nothing.
-
If you think that’s a stupid business idea,
Not at all. To me it sounds like the Android business model. It reduces their responsibility to just producing the basic core product. Let all of the content creators go nuts. The more people consuming that content, the more that are acquiring our basic tool kit…
However, was the original license free? Or was there a license fee and was it a set fee?
-
If you think that’s a stupid business idea,
Not at all. To me it sounds like the Android business model. It reduces their responsibility to just producing the basic core product. Let all of the content creators go nuts. The more people consuming that content, the more that are acquiring our basic tool kit…
However, was the original license free? Or was there a license fee and was it a set fee?
@LuFins-Dad said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
If you think that’s a stupid business idea,
Not at all. To me it sounds like the Android business model. It reduces their responsibility to just producing the basic core product. Let all of the content creators go nuts. The more people consuming that content, the more that are acquiring our basic tool kit…
However, was the original license free? Or was there a license fee and was it a set fee?
There was no fee. The tradeoff was, they still kept a shitload of their own IP that wasn't part of the SRD, so you were also forced to build up some things yourself. You can't create much using only the SRD, you can only use it as a basic skeleton.
Multiple words on the street over at WotC say that they had an all-hands meeting yesterday with their creative team to try to do damage control. (By "creative team," I mean the D&D folks, not PR or Marketing, so that's very strange. Probably to put them on camera and have them be the face of this. Which, you motherfucking cowards, that’s so shitty. It wasn’t their decision, they hate this just as much as everyone else, but you put them on camera and they’re the ones who are going to get the hate mail and the threats.)
-
I called it. They cancelled it.
Oh, and it was a recording. They cancelled the release of a recording.
Yeah these guys have their shit together.
-
They were probably going to go forward with it until it got to TNCR. They realized they had no chance after that…
-
Did OGL 1.0 just cover game mechanics or did it also cover Trademarks?
-
@LuFins-Dad said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
Did OGL 1.0 just cover game mechanics or did it also cover Trademarks?
No, what they did was they generalized some of the content. So for example, the spell "Tasha's Mind Whip" references Tasha, which is a protected IP and outside of the SRD. So for the SRD, they changed content like that to something more generic, like "Arcane Mind Whip" but kept the mechanics.
-
@LuFins-Dad said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
Did OGL 1.0 just cover game mechanics or did it also cover Trademarks?
No, what they did was they generalized some of the content. So for example, the spell "Tasha's Mind Whip" references Tasha, which is a protected IP and outside of the SRD. So for the SRD, they changed content like that to something more generic, like "Arcane Mind Whip" but kept the mechanics.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
@LuFins-Dad said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
Did OGL 1.0 just cover game mechanics or did it also cover Trademarks?
No, what they did was they generalized some of the content. So for example, the spell "Tasha's Mind Whip" references Tasha, which is a protected IP and outside of the SRD. So for the SRD, they changed content like that to something more generic, like "Arcane Mind Whip" but kept the mechanics.
Then I assume that they did have other licenses available? It seemed like D&D Beyond content contained WOTC Campaign Specific content…
-
-
I mean before they were bought by TSR.
@LuFins-Dad said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
I mean before they were bought by TSR.
No idea; the OGL goes back only to 2000.
-
My contribution to the ongoing dumpster fire.
-
...annnnnd Paizo answers.
https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si7v
This the rough equivalent of McDonald's attaching a user agreement to its McRib, saying you can't reference the McRib in any books, movies, live streams or podcasts or they'll sue the shit out of you.
...and then, Burger King
- making a similar product,
- telling McDonald's they're ready to fight them in the courts over it, and
- calling on Wendy's, Arby's and Hardees to do the same and make their own.
In other words it's insane.
-
Interestingly, CriticalRole banhammered any talk of the new OGL in their Twitch stream yesterday. ...But they didn't ban "#opendnd" which was spammed like mad during the whole thing. I think it's pretty clear at this point that they're bound in some WotC agreement and can't talk publicly about it, but they do support the backlash. (Which makes sense. I hate what CR has done to playing D&D but it's kinda not their fault, and to their credit, they hate what it's done, too.)
Please love yourself.
-
Interestingly, CriticalRole banhammered any talk of the new OGL in their Twitch stream yesterday. ...But they didn't ban "#opendnd" which was spammed like mad during the whole thing. I think it's pretty clear at this point that they're bound in some WotC agreement and can't talk publicly about it, but they do support the backlash. (Which makes sense. I hate what CR has done to playing D&D but it's kinda not their fault, and to their credit, they hate what it's done, too.)
@Aqua-Letifer said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
(Which makes sense. I hate what CR has done to playing D&D but it's kinda not their fault, and to their credit, they hate what it's done, too.)
Are you talking about the so-called "Mercer effect"?
-
@Aqua-Letifer said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
(Which makes sense. I hate what CR has done to playing D&D but it's kinda not their fault, and to their credit, they hate what it's done, too.)
Are you talking about the so-called "Mercer effect"?
@Horace said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
@Aqua-Letifer said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
(Which makes sense. I hate what CR has done to playing D&D but it's kinda not their fault, and to their credit, they hate what it's done, too.)
Are you talking about the so-called "Mercer effect"?
Not even that—although yeah, that is certainly a problem.
Celebrity D&D is an abomination. The whole point of the fucking hobby is that you get to be the hero in your own story, not watch other people be the hero in theirs. I absolutely fucking hate that about D&D's popularity. But Mercer has said many times the point of watching CR is to have fun and get inspired with your own games, so at least he gets it. He actually is a huge supporter of people doing their own thing.
Still find CR annoying as fuck, though. (Then again, I'm old and that's what old D&D players say. But I don't think that makes me wrong.)
-
@Horace said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
@Aqua-Letifer said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
(Which makes sense. I hate what CR has done to playing D&D but it's kinda not their fault, and to their credit, they hate what it's done, too.)
Are you talking about the so-called "Mercer effect"?
Not even that—although yeah, that is certainly a problem.
Celebrity D&D is an abomination. The whole point of the fucking hobby is that you get to be the hero in your own story, not watch other people be the hero in theirs. I absolutely fucking hate that about D&D's popularity. But Mercer has said many times the point of watching CR is to have fun and get inspired with your own games, so at least he gets it. He actually is a huge supporter of people doing their own thing.
Still find CR annoying as fuck, though. (Then again, I'm old and that's what old D&D players say. But I don't think that makes me wrong.)
@Aqua-Letifer said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
@Horace said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
@Aqua-Letifer said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
(Which makes sense. I hate what CR has done to playing D&D but it's kinda not their fault, and to their credit, they hate what it's done, too.)
Are you talking about the so-called "Mercer effect"?
Not even that—although yeah, that is certainly a problem.
Celebrity D&D is an abomination. The whole point of the fucking hobby is that you get to be the hero in your own story, not watch other people be the hero in theirs. I absolutely fucking hate that about D&D's popularity. But Mercer has said many times the point of watching CR is to have fun and get inspired with your own games, so at least he gets it. He actually is a huge supporter of people doing their own thing.
Still find CR annoying as fuck, though.
I've never successfully enjoyed any live-play video or podcast from CR or anybody else. Everything moves so slow. And if my attention is divided, I can't jump in at a random point and make any sense of anything that's happening. It takes 10 minutes of serious listening to get back on track. But by then my attention trails away again.
-
@Aqua-Letifer said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
@Horace said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
@Aqua-Letifer said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
(Which makes sense. I hate what CR has done to playing D&D but it's kinda not their fault, and to their credit, they hate what it's done, too.)
Are you talking about the so-called "Mercer effect"?
Not even that—although yeah, that is certainly a problem.
Celebrity D&D is an abomination. The whole point of the fucking hobby is that you get to be the hero in your own story, not watch other people be the hero in theirs. I absolutely fucking hate that about D&D's popularity. But Mercer has said many times the point of watching CR is to have fun and get inspired with your own games, so at least he gets it. He actually is a huge supporter of people doing their own thing.
Still find CR annoying as fuck, though.
I've never successfully enjoyed any live-play video or podcast from CR or anybody else. Everything moves so slow. And if my attention is divided, I can't jump in at a random point and make any sense of anything that's happening. It takes 10 minutes of serious listening to get back on track. But by then my attention trails away again.
@Horace said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
@Aqua-Letifer said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
@Horace said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
@Aqua-Letifer said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
(Which makes sense. I hate what CR has done to playing D&D but it's kinda not their fault, and to their credit, they hate what it's done, too.)
Are you talking about the so-called "Mercer effect"?
Not even that—although yeah, that is certainly a problem.
Celebrity D&D is an abomination. The whole point of the fucking hobby is that you get to be the hero in your own story, not watch other people be the hero in theirs. I absolutely fucking hate that about D&D's popularity. But Mercer has said many times the point of watching CR is to have fun and get inspired with your own games, so at least he gets it. He actually is a huge supporter of people doing their own thing.
Still find CR annoying as fuck, though.
I've never successfully enjoyed any live-play video or podcast from CR or anybody else. Everything moves so slow. And if my attention is divided, I can't jump in at a random point and make any sense of anything that's happening. It takes 10 minutes of serious listening to get back on track. But by then my attention trails away again.
I hate its very nature. D&D was outside of any kind of bullshit dominance hierarchy for decades. Who gave a shit what other groups were doing, you had yours and your campaign. Now with this shit, everyone's getting on Twitch and placating to a nonexistent audience instead of just playing the fucking game. I refuse to take part in any of those shenanigans.
