Hey Horace (and other D&D folks)
-
Have you been following #opendnd and the OGL 1.1 update? It's going to get pretty wild. There are already court challenges.
-
Yep all the D&D channels I follow are going ballistic. Funny thing is, the people with platforms to complain about this, are exactly the people most damaged by the new license. I've heard some theories that the leak of the license was intentional, so WotC could walk back some of the terms and emerge the good guy. But so much damage to their reputation has already been done, even if they do compromise. I feel bad for anybody trying to make a living with D&D content. But Youtube revenue is so unreliable anyway even without random licensing issues. I hope they all have plan Bs. That said, I suspect WotC will wrestle the contract from the bony fingers of their lawyers, and try to put some humanity in there for its official release. It is all sorts of no good for their brand if small youtubers are scared away. How much does WotC owe to Critical Role anyway? They're more than happy to reap the benefits of that free marketing.
-
Yep all the D&D channels I follow are going ballistic. Funny thing is, the people with platforms to complain about this, are exactly the people most damaged by the new license. I've heard some theories that the leak of the license was intentional, so WotC could walk back some of the terms and emerge the good guy. But so much damage to their reputation has already been done, even if they do compromise. I feel bad for anybody trying to make a living with D&D content. But Youtube revenue is so unreliable anyway even without random licensing issues. I hope they all have plan Bs. That said, I suspect WotC will wrestle the contract from the bony fingers of their lawyers, and try to put some humanity in there for its official release. It is all sorts of no good for their brand if small youtubers are scared away. How much does WotC owe to Critical Role anyway? They're more than happy to reap the benefits of that free marketing.
@Horace said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
But Youtube revenue is so unreliable anyway even without random licensing issues.
Well, that's the old way of making money through at YT channel, and the more successful folks don't follow this anymore. There are dozens of clever and more lucrative ways to monetize a channel outside of direct revenue from ad plays. ...But, OGL 1.1 kicks a lot of D&D creators in the balls in this area.
How much does WotC owe to Critical Role anyway? They're more than happy to reap the benefits of that free marketing.
Not anymore, apparently. They want more than that.
You know what's absolutely fucking hilarious about this? Do you know why OGL 1.0 was even created? Because in the 90s, the tabletop industry was absolutely dead. Ryan Dancey and a buddy of his were tasked by Wizards to make D&D profitable again.
What they found was that tabletops were a shit industry because it was too niche. And even among that niche, it was balkanized: everyone had their own personal games they enjoyed, and there was no way to bring them all together.
They literally modeled OGL 1.0 off of the telephone. A telephone's value doesn't lie in the technology. It lies in the fact that everyone else you know has a telephone. So they wanted to turn D&D into something like that for the gaming community.
Well, I think we can all say that it worked pretty well.
And so what happens.
If the dumb shits literally sat in a meeting and asked, "what's the quickest and most surefire way to destroy this company?" they still wouldn't come up with an idea this efficient in its destruction. -
@Horace said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
But Youtube revenue is so unreliable anyway even without random licensing issues.
Well, that's the old way of making money through at YT channel, and the more successful folks don't follow this anymore. There are dozens of clever and more lucrative ways to monetize a channel outside of direct revenue from ad plays. ...But, OGL 1.1 kicks a lot of D&D creators in the balls in this area.
How much does WotC owe to Critical Role anyway? They're more than happy to reap the benefits of that free marketing.
Not anymore, apparently. They want more than that.
You know what's absolutely fucking hilarious about this? Do you know why OGL 1.0 was even created? Because in the 90s, the tabletop industry was absolutely dead. Ryan Dancey and a buddy of his were tasked by Wizards to make D&D profitable again.
What they found was that tabletops were a shit industry because it was too niche. And even among that niche, it was balkanized: everyone had their own personal games they enjoyed, and there was no way to bring them all together.
They literally modeled OGL 1.0 off of the telephone. A telephone's value doesn't lie in the technology. It lies in the fact that everyone else you know has a telephone. So they wanted to turn D&D into something like that for the gaming community.
Well, I think we can all say that it worked pretty well.
And so what happens.
If the dumb shits literally sat in a meeting and asked, "what's the quickest and most surefire way to destroy this company?" they still wouldn't come up with an idea this efficient in its destruction.@Aqua-Letifer I bet it's as simple as some important person at WotC, watched people making money off of D&D, without any kickback to WotC, and they couldn't get past how shitty that tasted. So they're flipping the board. Which is their company.
-
@Aqua-Letifer I bet it's as simple as some important person at WotC, watched people making money off of D&D, without any kickback to WotC, and they couldn't get past how shitty that tasted. So they're flipping the board. Which is their company.
@Horace said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
@Aqua-Letifer I bet it's as simple as some important person at WotC, watched people making money off of D&D, without any kickback to WotC, and they couldn't get past how shitty that tasted. So they're flipping the board. Which is their company.
No way that's not true.
One of the more popular competitors needs to step up, brush up their system, and create an OGL for theirs. So much money to be made for the first few who do that.
-
@Horace said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
@Aqua-Letifer I bet it's as simple as some important person at WotC, watched people making money off of D&D, without any kickback to WotC, and they couldn't get past how shitty that tasted. So they're flipping the board. Which is their company.
No way that's not true.
One of the more popular competitors needs to step up, brush up their system, and create an OGL for theirs. So much money to be made for the first few who do that.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
@Horace said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
@Aqua-Letifer I bet it's as simple as some important person at WotC, watched people making money off of D&D, without any kickback to WotC, and they couldn't get past how shitty that tasted. So they're flipping the board. Which is their company.
No way that's not true.
One of the more popular competitors needs to step up, brush up their system, and create an OGL for theirs. So much money to be made for the first few who do that.
Well that didn't take long.
-
This is wild. Not since Southwest Airlines of 2022 have I seen a company crash and burn so hard.
It seems WotC leaked it because they thought there would be initial controversy, and then when they actually rolled out the changes, there'd be nothing to complain about; the naysayers would get it out of their system.
WotC held a meeting with DDB basically telling them nothing, saying "we're going to roll this out on a delayed timetable, we'll tell you when that is."
Someone at DDB leaked more info, shared it with fans, and now everyone who hasn't done so is cancelling their subscription.
-
Oh my God they took down the unsub page. They're literally preventing people from unsubscribing now.
-
Lol
Pretty sure that’s not legal.
Maybe they can say there are other ways to unsubscribe. They have that one person manning the unsubscribe phones, who takes upwards of one call per hour, for the lucky person able to navigate the automated phone system and then not get a busy signal after they find the “speak to a real person” at the end of the maze.
-
Lol
Pretty sure that’s not legal.
Maybe they can say there are other ways to unsubscribe. They have that one person manning the unsubscribe phones, who takes upwards of one call per hour, for the lucky person able to navigate the automated phone system and then not get a busy signal after they find the “speak to a real person” at the end of the maze.
@Horace said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
Lol
Pretty sure that’s not legal.
Maybe they can say there are other ways to unsubscribe. They have that one person manning the unsubscribe phones, who takes upwards of one call per hour, for the lucky person able to navigate the automated phone system and then not get a busy signal after they find the “speak to a real person” at the end of the maze.
I'm calling Hasbro and WotC in and out of meetings and shit just for funsies.
They sound like they're trying not to sound tired.
-
How much did the original licenses cost? Were they a flat fee or were they revenue based? How much editorial control did WOTC maintain over content?
-
I mean, was there any other major content creators other than D&D Beyond other than the YouTubers?
The Brad
-
I mean, was there any other major content creators other than D&D Beyond other than the YouTubers?
@LuFins-Dad said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
I mean, was there any other major content creators other than D&D Beyond other than the YouTubers?
There is a computer game called Solasta that I heard may have been one of WotC’s triggers.
Education is extremely important.
-
I mean, was there any other major content creators other than D&D Beyond other than the YouTubers?
@LuFins-Dad said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
I mean, was there any other major content creators other than D&D Beyond other than the YouTubers?
Oh my God man where have you been.
Yes, there are kind of a fucking lot of them.Here's how it used to work:
OGL 1.0 allowed players and fans to use D&D’s System Reference Document (SRD), which is a generalized and watered down version of their system and rules. If you make anything under this OGL, and you don't use anything outside the SRD, all rights are yours. You can sell it, promote it, do whatever you like to it, keep the rights to yourself.In addition to Critical Role, have you heard of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic? Or Pathfinder? Those were built on the OGL 1.0 system. Not to mention countless Kickstarters and homebrews that middle-tier publishers sell. Live streams, graphic novels, commercialized fan art, podcasts, etc., etc. could all reference SRD material and be in keeping with the OGL.
If you think that’s a stupid business idea, then you don’t know nearly as much about D&D as you thought. It’s literally what brought D&D from the brink in 2000 and turned it into the most popular TTRPG in the world.
The OGL 1.0 also mentioned explicitly that no update to future OGLs would ever affect 1.0 retroactively. So if D&D came up with an updated SRD for the new stuff they’ve created, but the rules were more stringent, you could still just use OGL 1.0 and its attached SRD to make content.
A leaked version of the OGL 1.1 has said that:
- We’re reneging on literally all of that
- You have to submit an application to use anything we make, which includes regular updates that you must provide proving how much money you're making on your work
- We can say yes or no at any time without any reason given,
- We own all the rights to everything you make. So we can start selling it ourselves, then revoke your license.
- If this seems like a bad deal for you, well, you waive any rights to litigation, so, sorry. Oh and
- You can only make static text documents and sell those, provided we agree and we don’t decide to steal it. No more video games, no live streams of people playing, no software platforms like Dungeon Fog to help you manage your campaigns, no podcasts of people playing, nothing like that.
What this really is, is a pre-emptive strike to promote their VTT. That's how they see their company moving forward. They dropped about a half dozen unnamed video game projects and pulled all their money over to developing the VTT.
-
@LuFins-Dad said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
I mean, was there any other major content creators other than D&D Beyond other than the YouTubers?
There is a computer game called Solasta that I heard may have been one of WotC’s triggers.
@Horace said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
@LuFins-Dad said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
I mean, was there any other major content creators other than D&D Beyond other than the YouTubers?
There is a computer game called Solasta that I heard may have been one of WotC’s triggers.
I've played it. It's fun.
-
If you're not doing anything in the next five minutes or so...
My guess is they'll totally balk now that word's gotten out. I'll be very surprised if they release anything.
EDIT: lol and now it's at 3pm. So far. I bet they do nothing.
-
If you think that’s a stupid business idea,
Not at all. To me it sounds like the Android business model. It reduces their responsibility to just producing the basic core product. Let all of the content creators go nuts. The more people consuming that content, the more that are acquiring our basic tool kit…
However, was the original license free? Or was there a license fee and was it a set fee?
-
If you think that’s a stupid business idea,
Not at all. To me it sounds like the Android business model. It reduces their responsibility to just producing the basic core product. Let all of the content creators go nuts. The more people consuming that content, the more that are acquiring our basic tool kit…
However, was the original license free? Or was there a license fee and was it a set fee?
@LuFins-Dad said in Hey Horace (and other D&D folks):
If you think that’s a stupid business idea,
Not at all. To me it sounds like the Android business model. It reduces their responsibility to just producing the basic core product. Let all of the content creators go nuts. The more people consuming that content, the more that are acquiring our basic tool kit…
However, was the original license free? Or was there a license fee and was it a set fee?
There was no fee. The tradeoff was, they still kept a shitload of their own IP that wasn't part of the SRD, so you were also forced to build up some things yourself. You can't create much using only the SRD, you can only use it as a basic skeleton.
Multiple words on the street over at WotC say that they had an all-hands meeting yesterday with their creative team to try to do damage control. (By "creative team," I mean the D&D folks, not PR or Marketing, so that's very strange. Probably to put them on camera and have them be the face of this. Which, you motherfucking cowards, that’s so shitty. It wasn’t their decision, they hate this just as much as everyone else, but you put them on camera and they’re the ones who are going to get the hate mail and the threats.)
-
I called it. They cancelled it.
Oh, and it was a recording. They cancelled the release of a recording.
Yeah these guys have their shit together.
