Classified files found at President's former office...
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Equally telling is the apparent inability of some to see the difference between finding classified stuff, and reporting it, and having stuff, denying you had it, refusing to return it, then lying about declassifying it in the first place.
Yes, Biden's two week delay is troubling, and obviously done to avoid political problems. Still....
@Doctor-Phibes said in Classified files found at President's former office...:
Equally telling is the apparent inability of some to see the difference between finding classified stuff, and reporting it, and having stuff, denying you had it, refusing to return it, then lying about declassifying it in the first place.
True.
But, if there's a crime, where is it, and what's the difference between the situations? Both involve the possession of classified documents in unauthorized locations. One warranted an FBI raid, and the other got the lawyers (a'la Clinton) examining the docs and telling us what's there. One could say that Trump was guilty of obstruction, but I've yet to see comment from the SC on that, and it's been 5 months.
Yes, Biden's two week delay is troubling, and obviously done to avoid political problems. Still....
You meant "month," right?
From the RWEC:
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Remember Reality Winner? The former Air Force enlistee went to work for a contractor to the intel community and discovered something that offended her. She took one classified document and sent it to The Intercept, which bungled the leak so badly that investigators almost immediately knew who sent it. What happened next? Emphasis mine:
She anonymously mailed a copy of a single document to the investigative news organization the Intercept. But despite that outlet’s reputation for taking top-secret information and turning it into news stories, its staffers didn’t take all the precautions that might have protected their source. Then, when a fleet of FBI agents showed up at her home, Winner didn’t insist on first consulting a lawyer.
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She spent 3 years in prison.
AFAIK, as I said, the FBI hasn't made an appearance.
Whistleblower Thomas Drake, a former NSA senior executive, tried to go by the book when he attempted to sound the alarm about a failed project at the agency that was costing American taxpayers more than $1 billion. Drake first complained to his superiors. He then privately informed the intelligence committees on Capitol Hill. After four years of reporting through proper channels, Drake anonymously contacted a Baltimore Sun reporter and became an unnamed source for her articles about mismanagement at the NSA.
In 2007, the FBI raided Drake's home and, three years later, a grand jury indicted him under the Espionage Act...
After the 60 Minutes report aired, the government dropped the charges against Drake in exchange for his pleading guilty to a single misdemeanor charge unrelated to the Espionage Act. At the sentencing hearing, Judge Richard D. Bennett said Drake and his family had gone through "four years of hell," only to have prosecutors ultimately back down on all felony charges.
So, all I want to see is the same standard applied to the odious Trump, the dishonest Biden and grifter Clinton that was applied to these two people. Comey told us, that for Clinton, it was all about "intent," but that's not a legal defense in this case. At least the DOJ could have given Trump the courtesy of having his attorneys go through the documents and determine what's
recipes and wedding plansclassified and what's not.I suppose Biden could have done worse than his garage - he could have stored it in his underwear.
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Yes, there's not really a level playing field, however intent is important.
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Yes, there's not really a level playing field, however intent is important.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Classified files found at President's former office...:
intent is important.
Tell that to a judge. It's not a defense.
Cruz talking about a related case:
“You described the reason why the case was closed against Ms. Abedin as that you could not determine she was aware her conduct was unlawful…Any first year law student learns in criminal law ignorance of the law is no excuse, and that mens rea does not require knowledge that conduct is unlawful.
In fact, the governing statutes – 18 USC 793f and 18 USC 798a – have no requirement of a knowledge of unlawful [intent]…under the terms of that statute, the fact pattern you described in this hearing [of Abedin’s behavior] seems to fit that statute directly. In that, if I understood you correctly, you said Ms. Abedin forwarded hundreds or thousands of classified emails to her husband on a non-government, non-classified computer. How does that conduct not directly violate that statute?”
Comey used past precedent as law and said no case has come up in fifty years that didn’t show intent. However, the law doesn’t call for intent. He then said it was his preference, not the law. In other words, he’s legislating from the offices of the FBI.
Cruz responded with appropriate disbelief:
“On its face, anyone dealing with classified information should know that conduct is impermissible. And let me ask you, how would you handle an FBI Agent who forwarded thousands of classified emails to his or her spouse on a non-government computer?”
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Classified files found at President's former office...:
intent is important.
Tell that to a judge. It's not a defense.
Cruz talking about a related case:
“You described the reason why the case was closed against Ms. Abedin as that you could not determine she was aware her conduct was unlawful…Any first year law student learns in criminal law ignorance of the law is no excuse, and that mens rea does not require knowledge that conduct is unlawful.
In fact, the governing statutes – 18 USC 793f and 18 USC 798a – have no requirement of a knowledge of unlawful [intent]…under the terms of that statute, the fact pattern you described in this hearing [of Abedin’s behavior] seems to fit that statute directly. In that, if I understood you correctly, you said Ms. Abedin forwarded hundreds or thousands of classified emails to her husband on a non-government, non-classified computer. How does that conduct not directly violate that statute?”
Comey used past precedent as law and said no case has come up in fifty years that didn’t show intent. However, the law doesn’t call for intent. He then said it was his preference, not the law. In other words, he’s legislating from the offices of the FBI.
Cruz responded with appropriate disbelief:
“On its face, anyone dealing with classified information should know that conduct is impermissible. And let me ask you, how would you handle an FBI Agent who forwarded thousands of classified emails to his or her spouse on a non-government computer?”
@George-K said in Classified files found at President's former office...:
Tell that to a judge. It's not a defense.
That might depend on the judge, and who the defendant was.
It's clear that a President is going to be treated differently from some peon.
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Equally telling is the apparent inability of some to see the difference between finding classified stuff, and reporting it, and having stuff, denying you had it, refusing to return it, then lying about declassifying it in the first place.
Yes, Biden's two week delay is troubling, and obviously done to avoid political problems. Still....
@Doctor-Phibes said in Classified files found at President's former office...:
Equally telling is the apparent inability of some to see the difference between finding classified stuff, and reporting it, and having stuff, denying you had it, refusing to return it, then lying about declassifying it in the first place.
Yes, Biden's two week delay is troubling, and obviously done to avoid political problems. Still....
Small problem here...Remember the documents in the garage? The ones next to the Vette?
You know, Joe Biden doesn't own that house. Hunter owns that house (at least according to papers he signed).
Now, since Hunter should be a convicted felon, wonder what the rules are for felons who possess Top Secret dicuments?
BTW, that must be a nice home...Rumors are that Hunter pays Joe $49,000 to rent Hunter's house...You cant make this stuff up...
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Classified files found at President's former office...:
Equally telling is the apparent inability of some to see the difference between finding classified stuff, and reporting it, and having stuff, denying you had it, refusing to return it, then lying about declassifying it in the first place.
Yes, Biden's two week delay is troubling, and obviously done to avoid political problems. Still....
Small problem here...Remember the documents in the garage? The ones next to the Vette?
You know, Joe Biden doesn't own that house. Hunter owns that house (at least according to papers he signed).
Now, since Hunter should be a convicted felon, wonder what the rules are for felons who possess Top Secret dicuments?
BTW, that must be a nice home...Rumors are that Hunter pays Joe $49,000 to rent Hunter's house...You cant make this stuff up...
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The Justice Department on Friday completed an extensive search of President Biden’s home in Wilmington and turned up additional classified documents, some of which date to his time in the United States Senate, the president’s personal attorney announced on Saturday night.
After being given full access to Biden’s home — including personally handwritten notes, files, papers, and binders that covered decades of his work — the Justice Department took possession of six items. Those items, according to the president’s personal attorney Bob Bauer, consisted of “documents with classification markings and surrounding materials.”
Some of those materials were from Biden’s time in the Senate, while others were from his tenure as vice president. The Justice Department also took some of Biden’s handwritten notes from his vice-presidential years to further review them.
Ah, for the good old days, when a senator claimed that possession of classified documents was a disqualifying event.
"Digging into the half-century history of a certain erratic Delaware pol, Fox News discovers that in the late 1970s, then-senator Joe Biden tanked President Jimmy Carter’s nomination of Ted Sorensen to head the CIA.
Sorensen, the confidant and speechwriter for President John F. Kennedy (and widely regarded as the author of a goodly chunk of Profiles in Courage, for which JFK won a Pulitzer Prize), retained classified documents in his home and used them, among other things, in writing a book about the Kennedy administration. This was too much for Biden, or so he said, so the senator opposed the nomination. As Fox’s Brooke Singman reports:
During Sorenson’s confirmation hearing, Biden said the “real issue” was “whether Mr. Sorensen intentionally took advantage of ambiguities in the law, or carelessly ignored the law. . . . If he did so, can he now bring the activities of the intelligence community within the strict limits of the law?” Biden asked. “We will expect that in the future of intelligence agencies. If that is to be the case, then we must hold the Director — DCI — accountable as well.”*
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The Justice Department on Friday completed an extensive search of President Biden’s home in Wilmington and turned up additional classified documents, some of which date to his time in the United States Senate, the president’s personal attorney announced on Saturday night.
After being given full access to Biden’s home — including personally handwritten notes, files, papers, and binders that covered decades of his work — the Justice Department took possession of six items. Those items, according to the president’s personal attorney Bob Bauer, consisted of “documents with classification markings and surrounding materials.”
Some of those materials were from Biden’s time in the Senate, while others were from his tenure as vice president. The Justice Department also took some of Biden’s handwritten notes from his vice-presidential years to further review them.
Ah, for the good old days, when a senator claimed that possession of classified documents was a disqualifying event.
"Digging into the half-century history of a certain erratic Delaware pol, Fox News discovers that in the late 1970s, then-senator Joe Biden tanked President Jimmy Carter’s nomination of Ted Sorensen to head the CIA.
Sorensen, the confidant and speechwriter for President John F. Kennedy (and widely regarded as the author of a goodly chunk of Profiles in Courage, for which JFK won a Pulitzer Prize), retained classified documents in his home and used them, among other things, in writing a book about the Kennedy administration. This was too much for Biden, or so he said, so the senator opposed the nomination. As Fox’s Brooke Singman reports:
During Sorenson’s confirmation hearing, Biden said the “real issue” was “whether Mr. Sorensen intentionally took advantage of ambiguities in the law, or carelessly ignored the law. . . . If he did so, can he now bring the activities of the intelligence community within the strict limits of the law?” Biden asked. “We will expect that in the future of intelligence agencies. If that is to be the case, then we must hold the Director — DCI — accountable as well.”*
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"Well, I’m concerned. There’s a standard that we follow when it comes to members of Congress and classified information. The door to my office is closed. The person who presents the document to me takes it out of a locked briefcase, hands it to me and watches as I read it, when I finish reading it, and he takes it back and puts it in the briefcase and leaves the scene.
I mean, that’s how carefully we review these documents. To think that any of them ended up in boxes in storage one place or the other is just unacceptable. "
- Sen Dick Durbin.
You KNOW they're pushing Biden aside for 2024 when you see this kind of stuff.
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"Well, I’m concerned. There’s a standard that we follow when it comes to members of Congress and classified information. The door to my office is closed. The person who presents the document to me takes it out of a locked briefcase, hands it to me and watches as I read it, when I finish reading it, and he takes it back and puts it in the briefcase and leaves the scene.
I mean, that’s how carefully we review these documents. To think that any of them ended up in boxes in storage one place or the other is just unacceptable. "
- Sen Dick Durbin.
You KNOW they're pushing Biden aside for 2024 when you see this kind of stuff.
@George-K said in Classified files found at President's former office...:
"Well, I’m concerned. There’s a standard that we follow when it comes to members of Congress and classified information. The door to my office is closed. The person who presents the document to me takes it out of a locked briefcase, hands it to me and watches as I read it, when I finish reading it, and he takes it back and puts it in the briefcase and leaves the scene.
I mean, that’s how carefully we review these documents. To think that any of them ended up in boxes in storage one place or the other is just unacceptable. "
- Sen Dick Durbin.
You KNOW they're pushing Biden aside for 2024 when you see this kind of stuff.
Yeppers.
And it's going to be hard to prosecute Trump, or maybe they go for a twofer.
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The FBI searched President Joe Biden’s beach house outside Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, on Wednesday morning, two sources familiar with the situation told NBC News.
A third source familiar with the matter said no warrant was involved and the search was consensual. It is unclear whether FBI agents are searching for something they know about or if it’s a random search for more classified documents.
Biden's personal attorney, Bob Bauer, said in a statement that the Department of Justice was conducting the search with Biden's full support and cooperation.
"Under DOJ’s standard procedures, in the interests of operational security and integrity, it sought to do this work without advance public notice, and we agreed to cooperate," Bauer said. "The search today is a further step in a thorough and timely DOJ process we will continue to fully support and facilitate. We will have further information at the conclusion of today’s search.”
Documents with classified markings were found earlier in Biden’s Wilmington residence and a Washington think tank office, but Bauer said earlier this month that no classified documents were found at the president's beach house. Biden's personal lawyers had searched the Wilmington and Rehoboth Beach residences for additional records, he said.
His lawyers searched...what's not to believe?
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Attorneys for President Joe Biden and the special counsel appointed to investigate his handling of classified documents have been negotiating for about a month over the terms under which he would be interviewed, two people familiar with the matter said.
Discussions between Biden’s lawyers and special counsel Robert Hur’s office are focused on how, when and where the interview might take place, as well as the scope of the questions, these people said. They stressed that the negotiations are ongoing and that no agreement has been reached.
The back-and-forth suggests that the probe — now in its eighth month — may not be wrapping up imminently. But an interview with the person at the center of an investigation typically takes place near the end of the process.
A spokesperson for Biden’s personal attorney, Bob Bauer, declined to comment Thursday, as did a spokesperson for Hur.
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Biden's practices "present serious risks to national security,"
Special counsel Robert Hur has declined to prosecute President Joe Biden for his handling of classified documents, but said Biden's practices "present serious risks to national security," and added that Biden portrayed himself as an "elderly man with a poor memory" who would be sympathetic to a jury.
"Our investigation uncovered evidence that President Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency when he was a private citizen," the report said, but the evidence "does not establish Mr. Biden's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt."
About a month after he left office as vice president, in a recorded conversation with his ghostwriter in February 2017, Biden remarked that he “just found all this classified stuff downstairs," the report said. Biden was believed to have been referencing classified documents about the Afghanistan troop surge in 2009, which Biden opposed.
Bidens’ memory, Hur’s report said, “was significantly limited” during his 2023 interviews with the special counsel.
"We have also considered that, at trial, Mr. Biden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory," it said. "Based on our direct interactions with and observations of him, he is someone for whom many jurors will want to identify reasonable doubt. It would be difficult to convince a jury that they should convict him — by then a former president well into his eighties — of a serious felony that requires a mental state of willfulness."
Later in the report, the special counsel said that the president's memory was "worse" during their interview with him, compared to his memory in recorded conversations from 2017.
"He did not remember when he was vice president, forgetting on the first day of the interview when his term ended ('if it was 2013 — when did I stop being Vice President?'), and forgetting on the second day of the interview when his term began ('in 2009, am I still Vice President?')," the report said.
Biden also had difficulty remembering the timing of his son Beau's death, as well as a debate about Afghanistan.
"He did not remember, even within several years, when his son Beau died," the report said.
So, you can excuse the old fart because he's an old geezer who can't remember shit.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
