Finally - the GOP attacks spending
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
@LuFins-Dad said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
From 2000 to 2019 spending increased from $2 Trillion to $4 Trillion. Yes @jon-nyc a lot of those increases were under Bush and Trump. However, when Bush jumped the spending for a 1 year extraordinary measure to combat the 08 financial crisis, Obama set the extraordinary 1 year amount as the new normal. When spending increased massively in 2020 and 2021 to combat COVID, spending went from $4.5 Trillion to $7 Trillion in extraordinary measures. Now that we’re past the worst of the pandemic, spending should go back to being closer to 2019, no? Maybe a little higher… But no. The current administration and previous Congress has set $6-$6.5 Trillion as the new normal.
So what you're saying is that Republicans increase spending and call it '
specialEXTRAORDINARY’, whereas Democrats do it and say it's normal.By saying it's '
specialextraordinary’, essentially they're saying 'we can increase spending because we've fucked up the economy/started an unnecessary war/etc. but you can't'How
special.extraordinary.-
FIFYNNTTM
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Do you not agree that the 2008 Mortgage Crisis and the steps taken to combat it were extraordinary? Do you also not believe the 2020 shutdowns and the global pandemic were extraordinary? Interesting. I also fail to see how Carter’s policies that were doubled down on by Clinton can be the fault of Republicans. I also don’t see where a war contributed to either extraordinary event. I suppose the Trump Administration can be blamed for employing Fauci, who financially supported Gain of Function Research on the same types of viruses at the same lab where it seems likely that the COVID Virus escaped from.
But please enlighten me as to how the mortgage crisis wasn’t extraordinary nor the global pandemic. And how they came about because of Republican Administration policies and failures.
wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 15:54 last edited by@LuFins-Dad said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
@LuFins-Dad said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
From 2000 to 2019 spending increased from $2 Trillion to $4 Trillion. Yes @jon-nyc a lot of those increases were under Bush and Trump. However, when Bush jumped the spending for a 1 year extraordinary measure to combat the 08 financial crisis, Obama set the extraordinary 1 year amount as the new normal. When spending increased massively in 2020 and 2021 to combat COVID, spending went from $4.5 Trillion to $7 Trillion in extraordinary measures. Now that we’re past the worst of the pandemic, spending should go back to being closer to 2019, no? Maybe a little higher… But no. The current administration and previous Congress has set $6-$6.5 Trillion as the new normal.
So what you're saying is that Republicans increase spending and call it '
specialEXTRAORDINARY’, whereas Democrats do it and say it's normal.By saying it's '
specialextraordinary’, essentially they're saying 'we can increase spending because we've fucked up the economy/started an unnecessary war/etc. but you can't'How
special.extraordinary.-
FIFYNNTTM
-
Do you not agree that the 2008 Mortgage Crisis and the steps taken to combat it were extraordinary? Do you also not believe the 2020 shutdowns and the global pandemic were extraordinary? Interesting. I also fail to see how Carter’s policies that were doubled down on by Clinton can be the fault of Republicans. I also don’t see where a war contributed to either extraordinary event. I suppose the Trump Administration can be blamed for employing Fauci, who financially supported Gain of Function Research on the same types of viruses at the same lab where it seems likely that the COVID Virus escaped from.
But please enlighten me as to how the mortgage crisis wasn’t extraordinary nor the global pandemic. And how they came about because of Republican Administration policies and failures.
There's always some kind of extraordinary stuff that needs to be paid for. Who's to blame for the housing crisis is debatable. I've read here that if it happens on somebody's watch, then it's his fault, however it seems a bit rich pinning the blame on Obama.
I only mention the war as it was yet another extraordinary thing that had to be paid for, apparently by my grandchildren in the unlikely event that my kids can ever afford to buy a house to put them in.
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As far as our left-leaning friends on TNCR are concerned, there is no way to coherently spend one's vote or give one's support politically, in favor of fiscal responsibility. If you're looking for reasons to support one party over the other, you must look elsewhere. You can prefer fiscal responsibility if you want, but to attach that preference to a party preference is sheer madness.
The underlying motivation here is to allow for the socially advantageous leftist cultural affiliation, without taking any personal responsibility for their irresponsible economic policies. "Yeah but the Republicans are exactly as bad".
wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 15:57 last edited by Doctor Phibes 1 Oct 2023, 15:58@Horace said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
As far as our left-leaning friends on TNCR are concerned, there is no way to coherently spend one's vote or give one's support politically, in favor of fiscal responsibility. If you're looking for reasons to support one party over the other, you must look elsewhere. You can prefer fiscal responsibility if you want, but to attach that preference to a party preference is sheer madness.
The underlying motivation here is to allow for the socially advantageous leftist cultural affiliation, without taking any personal responsibility for their irresponsible economic policies. "Yeah but the Republicans are exactly as bad".
They pretty much are, if you look at this pretty picture, with helpful colour coding. I'm sure extraordinary things happened during all of the red presidencies.
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@Horace said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
As far as our left-leaning friends on TNCR are concerned, there is no way to coherently spend one's vote or give one's support politically, in favor of fiscal responsibility. If you're looking for reasons to support one party over the other, you must look elsewhere. You can prefer fiscal responsibility if you want, but to attach that preference to a party preference is sheer madness.
The underlying motivation here is to allow for the socially advantageous leftist cultural affiliation, without taking any personal responsibility for their irresponsible economic policies. "Yeah but the Republicans are exactly as bad".
They pretty much are, if you look at this pretty picture, with helpful colour coding. I'm sure extraordinary things happened during all of the red presidencies.
wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 16:05 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
@Horace said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
As far as our left-leaning friends on TNCR are concerned, there is no way to coherently spend one's vote or give one's support politically, in favor of fiscal responsibility. If you're looking for reasons to support one party over the other, you must look elsewhere. You can prefer fiscal responsibility if you want, but to attach that preference to a party preference is sheer madness.
The underlying motivation here is to allow for the socially advantageous leftist cultural affiliation, without taking any personal responsibility for their irresponsible economic policies. "Yeah but the Republicans are exactly as bad".
They pretty much are, if you look at this pretty picture, with helpful colour coding. I'm sure extraordinary things happened during all of the red presidencies.
We've watched over the past years, the republicans in congress use their power to squash irresponsible policy. This is not an abstractable exercise which can be proven false by aggregate statistics. What the aggregate statistics show is an overall direction over time, which is undeniable. But the speed with which we pursue that direction is hampered by the presence of conservative ideology. I suspect that is a reason why Europe is further along than America is, along these lines. They don't have as much baked-in conservative ideology, to pump the brakes on the taxing and spending.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
@LuFins-Dad said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
From 2000 to 2019 spending increased from $2 Trillion to $4 Trillion. Yes @jon-nyc a lot of those increases were under Bush and Trump. However, when Bush jumped the spending for a 1 year extraordinary measure to combat the 08 financial crisis, Obama set the extraordinary 1 year amount as the new normal. When spending increased massively in 2020 and 2021 to combat COVID, spending went from $4.5 Trillion to $7 Trillion in extraordinary measures. Now that we’re past the worst of the pandemic, spending should go back to being closer to 2019, no? Maybe a little higher… But no. The current administration and previous Congress has set $6-$6.5 Trillion as the new normal.
So what you're saying is that Republicans increase spending and call it '
specialEXTRAORDINARY’, whereas Democrats do it and say it's normal.By saying it's '
specialextraordinary’, essentially they're saying 'we can increase spending because we've fucked up the economy/started an unnecessary war/etc. but you can't'How
special.extraordinary.-
FIFYNNTTM
-
Do you not agree that the 2008 Mortgage Crisis and the steps taken to combat it were extraordinary? Do you also not believe the 2020 shutdowns and the global pandemic were extraordinary? Interesting. I also fail to see how Carter’s policies that were doubled down on by Clinton can be the fault of Republicans. I also don’t see where a war contributed to either extraordinary event. I suppose the Trump Administration can be blamed for employing Fauci, who financially supported Gain of Function Research on the same types of viruses at the same lab where it seems likely that the COVID Virus escaped from.
But please enlighten me as to how the mortgage crisis wasn’t extraordinary nor the global pandemic. And how they came about because of Republican Administration policies and failures.
There's always some kind of extraordinary stuff that needs to be paid for. Who's to blame for the housing crisis is debatable. I've read here that if it happens on somebody's watch, then it's his fault, however it seems a bit rich pinning the blame on Obama.
I only mention the war as it was yet another extraordinary thing that had to be paid for, apparently by my grandchildren in the unlikely event that my kids can ever afford to buy a house to put them in.
wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 16:11 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
@LuFins-Dad said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
@LuFins-Dad said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
From 2000 to 2019 spending increased from $2 Trillion to $4 Trillion. Yes @jon-nyc a lot of those increases were under Bush and Trump. However, when Bush jumped the spending for a 1 year extraordinary measure to combat the 08 financial crisis, Obama set the extraordinary 1 year amount as the new normal. When spending increased massively in 2020 and 2021 to combat COVID, spending went from $4.5 Trillion to $7 Trillion in extraordinary measures. Now that we’re past the worst of the pandemic, spending should go back to being closer to 2019, no? Maybe a little higher… But no. The current administration and previous Congress has set $6-$6.5 Trillion as the new normal.
So what you're saying is that Republicans increase spending and call it '
specialEXTRAORDINARY’, whereas Democrats do it and say it's normal.By saying it's '
specialextraordinary’, essentially they're saying 'we can increase spending because we've fucked up the economy/started an unnecessary war/etc. but you can't'How
special.extraordinary.-
FIFYNNTTM
-
Do you not agree that the 2008 Mortgage Crisis and the steps taken to combat it were extraordinary? Do you also not believe the 2020 shutdowns and the global pandemic were extraordinary? Interesting. I also fail to see how Carter’s policies that were doubled down on by Clinton can be the fault of Republicans. I also don’t see where a war contributed to either extraordinary event. I suppose the Trump Administration can be blamed for employing Fauci, who financially supported Gain of Function Research on the same types of viruses at the same lab where it seems likely that the COVID Virus escaped from.
But please enlighten me as to how the mortgage crisis wasn’t extraordinary nor the global pandemic. And how they came about because of Republican Administration policies and failures.
There's always some kind of extraordinary stuff that needs to be paid for. Who's to blame for the housing crisis is debatable. I've read here that if it happens on somebody's watch, then it's his fault, however it seems a bit rich pinning the blame on Obama.
I only mention the war as it was yet another extraordinary thing that had to be paid for, apparently by my grandchildren in the unlikely event that my kids can ever afford to buy a house to put them in.
So the mortgage crisis and COVID 19 were ordinary extraordinary. Got it. That still doesn’t explain the next administrations. using those ordinary extraordinary events as the new normal baseline for spending.
As for the chart, yes, I acknowledge in my first post that spending has increased under Republicans as well, and not even in extraordinary circumstances. Now explain why that means we shouldn’t try to curb spending now?
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
@LuFins-Dad said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
@LuFins-Dad said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
From 2000 to 2019 spending increased from $2 Trillion to $4 Trillion. Yes @jon-nyc a lot of those increases were under Bush and Trump. However, when Bush jumped the spending for a 1 year extraordinary measure to combat the 08 financial crisis, Obama set the extraordinary 1 year amount as the new normal. When spending increased massively in 2020 and 2021 to combat COVID, spending went from $4.5 Trillion to $7 Trillion in extraordinary measures. Now that we’re past the worst of the pandemic, spending should go back to being closer to 2019, no? Maybe a little higher… But no. The current administration and previous Congress has set $6-$6.5 Trillion as the new normal.
So what you're saying is that Republicans increase spending and call it '
specialEXTRAORDINARY’, whereas Democrats do it and say it's normal.By saying it's '
specialextraordinary’, essentially they're saying 'we can increase spending because we've fucked up the economy/started an unnecessary war/etc. but you can't'How
special.extraordinary.-
FIFYNNTTM
-
Do you not agree that the 2008 Mortgage Crisis and the steps taken to combat it were extraordinary? Do you also not believe the 2020 shutdowns and the global pandemic were extraordinary? Interesting. I also fail to see how Carter’s policies that were doubled down on by Clinton can be the fault of Republicans. I also don’t see where a war contributed to either extraordinary event. I suppose the Trump Administration can be blamed for employing Fauci, who financially supported Gain of Function Research on the same types of viruses at the same lab where it seems likely that the COVID Virus escaped from.
But please enlighten me as to how the mortgage crisis wasn’t extraordinary nor the global pandemic. And how they came about because of Republican Administration policies and failures.
There's always some kind of extraordinary stuff that needs to be paid for. Who's to blame for the housing crisis is debatable. I've read here that if it happens on somebody's watch, then it's his fault, however it seems a bit rich pinning the blame on Obama.
I only mention the war as it was yet another extraordinary thing that had to be paid for, apparently by my grandchildren in the unlikely event that my kids can ever afford to buy a house to put them in.
So the mortgage crisis and COVID 19 were ordinary extraordinary. Got it. That still doesn’t explain the next administrations. using those ordinary extraordinary events as the new normal baseline for spending.
As for the chart, yes, I acknowledge in my first post that spending has increased under Republicans as well, and not even in extraordinary circumstances. Now explain why that means we shouldn’t try to curb spending now?
wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 16:18 last edited by@LuFins-Dad said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
Now explain why that means we shouldn’t try to curb spending now?
I think we should be curbing spending now. We should have been doing it all along.
I'd cut other things, too. Military spending springs to mind.
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@Horace said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
As far as our left-leaning friends on TNCR are concerned, there is no way to coherently spend one's vote or give one's support politically, in favor of fiscal responsibility. If you're looking for reasons to support one party over the other, you must look elsewhere. You can prefer fiscal responsibility if you want, but to attach that preference to a party preference is sheer madness.
The underlying motivation here is to allow for the socially advantageous leftist cultural affiliation, without taking any personal responsibility for their irresponsible economic policies. "Yeah but the Republicans are exactly as bad".
They pretty much are, if you look at this pretty picture, with helpful colour coding. I'm sure extraordinary things happened during all of the red presidencies.
wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 17:04 last edited by Jolly 1 Oct 2023, 17:48@Doctor-Phibes said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
@Horace said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
As far as our left-leaning friends on TNCR are concerned, there is no way to coherently spend one's vote or give one's support politically, in favor of fiscal responsibility. If you're looking for reasons to support one party over the other, you must look elsewhere. You can prefer fiscal responsibility if you want, but to attach that preference to a party preference is sheer madness.
The underlying motivation here is to allow for the socially advantageous leftist cultural affiliation, without taking any personal responsibility for their irresponsible economic policies. "Yeah but the Republicans are exactly as bad".
They pretty much are, if you look at this pretty picture, with helpful colour coding. I'm sure extraordinary things happened during all of the red presidencies.
In 1947, you could buy a new Buck - a nice Buick - for about $1000. I understand the chart is adjusted for inflation, but it certainly doesn't show the built-in increases of LBJ's programs.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
Now explain why that means we shouldn’t try to curb spending now?
I think we should be curbing spending now. We should have been doing it all along.
I'd cut other things, too. Military spending springs to mind.
wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 17:36 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
@LuFins-Dad said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
Now explain why that means we shouldn’t try to curb spending now?
I think we should be curbing spending now. We should have been doing it all along.
I'd cut other things, too. Military spending springs to mind.
Then we agree.
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@Horace said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
As far as our left-leaning friends on TNCR are concerned, there is no way to coherently spend one's vote or give one's support politically, in favor of fiscal responsibility. If you're looking for reasons to support one party over the other, you must look elsewhere. You can prefer fiscal responsibility if you want, but to attach that preference to a party preference is sheer madness.
The underlying motivation here is to allow for the socially advantageous leftist cultural affiliation, without taking any personal responsibility for their irresponsible economic policies. "Yeah but the Republicans are exactly as bad".
They pretty much are, if you look at this pretty picture, with helpful colour coding. I'm sure extraordinary things happened during all of the red presidencies.
wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 18:30 last edited byThat first atomic weapon is really expensive. But the price comes down with volume.
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wrote on 11 Jan 2023, 02:12 last edited by
Democrats increase the deficit through compassion and ambition, through "great society" type social spending.
Republicans increase the deficit throngh incompetence and being penny wise, pound foolish. E.g., cutting regulation and enforcement to the point where preventable crises metastasized and then $trillions need to be spent to deal with the crises.
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Democrats increase the deficit through compassion and ambition, through "great society" type social spending.
Republicans increase the deficit throngh incompetence and being penny wise, pound foolish. E.g., cutting regulation and enforcement to the point where preventable crises metastasized and then $trillions need to be spent to deal with the crises.
wrote on 11 Jan 2023, 02:34 last edited by@Axtremus said in Finally - the GOP attacks spending:
Democrats increase the deficit through compassion and ambition, through "great society" type social spending.
Republicans increase the deficit throngh incompetence and being penny wise, pound foolish. E.g., cutting regulation and enforcement to the point where preventable crises metastasized and then $trillions need to be spent to deal with the crises.
I'll bet you spent no less than 3 minutes figuring that out.