Queen of the Mob?
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Let’s not forget that the rioters paid for the capitol building and had every right to be there. And nothing they did warranted shooting them.
But it’s also the left’s fault that they didn’t do enough to stop them.
wrote on 9 Jan 2023, 23:40 last edited by@xenon said in Queen of the Mob?:
Let’s not forget that the rioters paid for the capitol building and had every right to be there. And nothing they did warranted shooting them.
But it’s also the left’s fault that they didn’t do enough to stop them.
With reasonable security, that clusterfuck with the makeshift barricade and the panicked officer, wouldn't have happened.
I'm not the one who thinks the avenue to a legitimate coup lay within the Capitol grounds. For those who accept that narrative, we should start talking about reasonable security and why it was not present.
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@xenon said in Queen of the Mob?:
Let’s not forget that the rioters paid for the capitol building and had every right to be there. And nothing they did warranted shooting them.
But it’s also the left’s fault that they didn’t do enough to stop them.
With reasonable security, that clusterfuck with the makeshift barricade and the panicked officer, wouldn't have happened.
I'm not the one who thinks the avenue to a legitimate coup lay within the Capitol grounds. For those who accept that narrative, we should start talking about reasonable security and why it was not present.
wrote on 9 Jan 2023, 23:43 last edited by xenon 1 Sept 2023, 23:44@Horace said in Queen of the Mob?:
@xenon said in Queen of the Mob?:
Let’s not forget that the rioters paid for the capitol building and had every right to be there. And nothing they did warranted shooting them.
But it’s also the left’s fault that they didn’t do enough to stop them.
With reasonable security, that clusterfuck with the makeshift barricade and the panicked officer, wouldn't have happened.
I'm not the one who thinks the avenue to a legitimate coup lay within the Capitol grounds. For those who accept that narrative, we should start talking about reasonable security and why it was not present.
100% agreed that better security could have prevented this. And I think going forward it'll be a lot more secure.
But the security failure was a failure of imagination - just like things like 9/11 before it.
I don't think anyone really thought we needed a riot squad at the capitol before this.
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@Horace said in Queen of the Mob?:
@xenon said in Queen of the Mob?:
Let’s not forget that the rioters paid for the capitol building and had every right to be there. And nothing they did warranted shooting them.
But it’s also the left’s fault that they didn’t do enough to stop them.
With reasonable security, that clusterfuck with the makeshift barricade and the panicked officer, wouldn't have happened.
I'm not the one who thinks the avenue to a legitimate coup lay within the Capitol grounds. For those who accept that narrative, we should start talking about reasonable security and why it was not present.
100% agreed that better security could have prevented this. And I think going forward it'll be a lot more secure.
But the security failure was a failure of imagination - just like things like 9/11 before it.
I don't think anyone really thought we needed a riot squad at the capitol before this.
wrote on 9 Jan 2023, 23:53 last edited by@xenon said in Queen of the Mob?:
@Horace said in Queen of the Mob?:
@xenon said in Queen of the Mob?:
Let’s not forget that the rioters paid for the capitol building and had every right to be there. And nothing they did warranted shooting them.
But it’s also the left’s fault that they didn’t do enough to stop them.
With reasonable security, that clusterfuck with the makeshift barricade and the panicked officer, wouldn't have happened.
I'm not the one who thinks the avenue to a legitimate coup lay within the Capitol grounds. For those who accept that narrative, we should start talking about reasonable security and why it was not present.
100% agreed that better security could have prevented this. And I think going forward it'll be a lot more secure.
But the security failure was a failure of imagination - just like things like 9/11 before it.
I don't think anyone really thought we needed a riot squad at the capitol before this.
There is no novelty in government building security, or mobs getting out of hand. If anybody's imagination failed them, they are morons. If those morons were responsible for security at the Capitol, they are morons who are also bad at their jobs.
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@xenon said in Queen of the Mob?:
@Horace said in Queen of the Mob?:
@xenon said in Queen of the Mob?:
Let’s not forget that the rioters paid for the capitol building and had every right to be there. And nothing they did warranted shooting them.
But it’s also the left’s fault that they didn’t do enough to stop them.
With reasonable security, that clusterfuck with the makeshift barricade and the panicked officer, wouldn't have happened.
I'm not the one who thinks the avenue to a legitimate coup lay within the Capitol grounds. For those who accept that narrative, we should start talking about reasonable security and why it was not present.
100% agreed that better security could have prevented this. And I think going forward it'll be a lot more secure.
But the security failure was a failure of imagination - just like things like 9/11 before it.
I don't think anyone really thought we needed a riot squad at the capitol before this.
There is no novelty in government building security, or mobs getting out of hand. If anybody's imagination failed them, they are morons. If those morons were responsible for security at the Capitol, they are morons who are also bad at their jobs.
wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 00:39 last edited by xenon 1 Oct 2023, 00:41@Horace What I'm saying is that no one really thought regular Americans would think it was a good idea to try and rush the Capitol building.
Just like - before the multiple assassination / attempts of U.S. Presidents last century - we didn't really think they needed ironclad security.
The Canadian Prime Minister, for example. has way less security than the U.S. President - but no one has really taken shots at them either.
What I'm saying is that - we typically only secure against things that have already happened.
I think this is probably the most cost-effective way to secure an open society as well.
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wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 00:44 last edited by
One more add - if we really thought Jan. 6 was preventable with security, then Trump winding them up even further was unconscionable.
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@Horace What I'm saying is that no one really thought regular Americans would think it was a good idea to try and rush the Capitol building.
Just like - before the multiple assassination / attempts of U.S. Presidents last century - we didn't really think they needed ironclad security.
The Canadian Prime Minister, for example. has way less security than the U.S. President - but no one has really taken shots at them either.
What I'm saying is that - we typically only secure against things that have already happened.
I think this is probably the most cost-effective way to secure an open society as well.
wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 01:28 last edited by@xenon said in Queen of the Mob?:
@Horace What I'm saying is that no one really thought regular Americans would think it was a good idea to try and rush the Capitol building.
Just like - before the multiple assassination / attempts of U.S. Presidents last century - we didn't really think they needed ironclad security.
The Canadian Prime Minister, for example. has way less security than the U.S. President - but no one has really taken shots at them either.
What I'm saying is that - we typically only secure against things that have already happened.
I think this is probably the most cost-effective way to secure an open society as well.
For goodness' sakes, let us not have facts get in the way of our premeditated opinion!
How about a few facts?
Fact #1 - Pelosi was responsible for the Capitol buildings safety. She could task more capitol police or ask for other assets.
Fact #2 - Trump's Administration offered NG troops for crowd control and security.
Fact #3 - The Speaker failed to beef up security enough, either through her available assets or through her acceptance of NG troops.Conjecture: Either Pelosi badly underestimated the possibility of the crowd getting out of control ( and remember, the actual rioters were only a very tiny percent of the people who attended the rally) or she weighed the politics of increased security and made her decision based on politics. The extremely cynical among us would argue that she possibly would not cry tears, if an incident of some kind did happen.
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One more add - if we really thought Jan. 6 was preventable with security, then Trump winding them up even further was unconscionable.
wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 01:29 last edited by@xenon said in Queen of the Mob?:
One more add - if we really thought Jan. 6 was preventable with security, then Trump winding them up even further was unconscionable.
Then why did Trump tell them to protest peacefully?
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@Horace said in Queen of the Mob?:
@xenon said in Queen of the Mob?:
Let’s not forget that the rioters paid for the capitol building and had every right to be there. And nothing they did warranted shooting them.
But it’s also the left’s fault that they didn’t do enough to stop them.
With reasonable security, that clusterfuck with the makeshift barricade and the panicked officer, wouldn't have happened.
I'm not the one who thinks the avenue to a legitimate coup lay within the Capitol grounds. For those who accept that narrative, we should start talking about reasonable security and why it was not present.
100% agreed that better security could have prevented this. And I think going forward it'll be a lot more secure.
But the security failure was a failure of imagination - just like things like 9/11 before it.
I don't think anyone really thought we needed a riot squad at the capitol before this.
wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 01:40 last edited by@xenon said in Queen of the Mob?:
@Horace said in Queen of the Mob?:
@xenon said in Queen of the Mob?:
Let’s not forget that the rioters paid for the capitol building and had every right to be there. And nothing they did warranted shooting them.
But it’s also the left’s fault that they didn’t do enough to stop them.
With reasonable security, that clusterfuck with the makeshift barricade and the panicked officer, wouldn't have happened.
I'm not the one who thinks the avenue to a legitimate coup lay within the Capitol grounds. For those who accept that narrative, we should start talking about reasonable security and why it was not present.
100% agreed that better security could have prevented this. And I think going forward it'll be a lot more secure.
But the security failure was a failure of imagination - just like things like 9/11 before it.
I don't think anyone really thought we needed a riot squad at the capitol before this.
Sorry, but no. There were multiple points of security starting 3 blocks out from the Capital for years before January 6th. The Capitol Police manning those checkpoints were normally in Kevlar and helmets since the riots in DC over Trump’s inauguration. They geared up even more once the George Floyd riots began. If you would have visited the Capitol on January 3rd, you would have found Capitol Police better equipped than they were on Jan 6th..
Beyond that, once the barricades were breached, the building was sealed. I still haven’t seen an explanation of how the mob breached 20,000 pound metal doors. I would very much like to know that.
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wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 01:42 last edited by
Maybe that's a question the committee should have asked...
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@xenon said in Queen of the Mob?:
@Horace said in Queen of the Mob?:
@xenon said in Queen of the Mob?:
Let’s not forget that the rioters paid for the capitol building and had every right to be there. And nothing they did warranted shooting them.
But it’s also the left’s fault that they didn’t do enough to stop them.
With reasonable security, that clusterfuck with the makeshift barricade and the panicked officer, wouldn't have happened.
I'm not the one who thinks the avenue to a legitimate coup lay within the Capitol grounds. For those who accept that narrative, we should start talking about reasonable security and why it was not present.
100% agreed that better security could have prevented this. And I think going forward it'll be a lot more secure.
But the security failure was a failure of imagination - just like things like 9/11 before it.
I don't think anyone really thought we needed a riot squad at the capitol before this.
Sorry, but no. There were multiple points of security starting 3 blocks out from the Capital for years before January 6th. The Capitol Police manning those checkpoints were normally in Kevlar and helmets since the riots in DC over Trump’s inauguration. They geared up even more once the George Floyd riots began. If you would have visited the Capitol on January 3rd, you would have found Capitol Police better equipped than they were on Jan 6th..
Beyond that, once the barricades were breached, the building was sealed. I still haven’t seen an explanation of how the mob breached 20,000 pound metal doors. I would very much like to know that.
wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 02:03 last edited by@LuFins-Dad said in Queen of the Mob?:
There were multiple points of security starting 3 blocks out from the Capital for years before January 6th. The Capitol Police manning those checkpoints were normally in Kevlar and helmets since the riots in DC over Trump’s inauguration. They geared up even more once the George Floyd riots began. If you would have visited the Capitol on January 3rd, you would have found Capitol Police better equipped than they were on Jan 6th..
So, contrary to @Horace's assertion, there was reasonable security at the Capitol on Jan. 6.
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wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 02:03 last edited by
No, I guess you guys are right. Pelosi is the evil genius who foresaw the Jan 6 attacks and started putting the wheels in motion to make it happen in December.
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No, I guess you guys are right. Pelosi is the evil genius who foresaw the Jan 6 attacks and started putting the wheels in motion to make it happen in December.
wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 02:06 last edited by@xenon said in Queen of the Mob?:
No, I guess you guys are right. Pelosi is the evil genius who foresaw the Jan 6 attacks and started putting the wheels in motion to make it happen in December.
Niiice…
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@LuFins-Dad said in Queen of the Mob?:
There were multiple points of security starting 3 blocks out from the Capital for years before January 6th. The Capitol Police manning those checkpoints were normally in Kevlar and helmets since the riots in DC over Trump’s inauguration. They geared up even more once the George Floyd riots began. If you would have visited the Capitol on January 3rd, you would have found Capitol Police better equipped than they were on Jan 6th..
So, contrary to @Horace's assertion, there was reasonable security at the Capitol on Jan. 6.
wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 02:08 last edited by@Axtremus said in Queen of the Mob?:
@LuFins-Dad said in Queen of the Mob?:
There were multiple points of security starting 3 blocks out from the Capital for years before January 6th. The Capitol Police manning those checkpoints were normally in Kevlar and helmets since the riots in DC over Trump’s inauguration. They geared up even more once the George Floyd riots began. If you would have visited the Capitol on January 3rd, you would have found Capitol Police better equipped than they were on Jan 6th..
So, contrary to @Horace's assertion, there was reasonable security at the Capitol on Jan. 6.
Or you are not good at reading comprehension.
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No, I guess you guys are right. Pelosi is the evil genius who foresaw the Jan 6 attacks and started putting the wheels in motion to make it happen in December.
wrote on 10 Jan 2023, 13:12 last edited by@xenon said in Queen of the Mob?:
No, I guess you guys are right. Pelosi is the evil genius who foresaw the Jan 6 attacks and started putting the wheels in motion to make it happen in December.
Don't be a dumbass. Nobody has said that.