15/9
-
@Doctor-Phibes said in 15/9:
How many times do we have to learn that appeasement doesn’t work.
The US imprisons a larger proportion of its population than any other country in the world.
Got an answer for you. In fact, two.
-
Mental health. Our system sucks and it stems from the Reagan Administration...They bought into the whole medicate-and-close-the-institutions bit. That doesn't work. A lot of people are in jail mostly because they are crazy.
-
Drugs. The U.S., as Copper has pointed out, is a country where even poor people have disposable income. Couple that with the underground drug economy and we have lots of folks in jail who committed their crimes while high as a kite.
-
-
@Doctor-Phibes said in 15/9:
How many times do we have to learn that appeasement doesn’t work.
The US imprisons a larger proportion of its population than any other country in the world.
Got an answer for you. In fact, two.
-
Mental health. Our system sucks and it stems from the Reagan Administration...They bought into the whole medicate-and-close-the-institutions bit. That doesn't work. A lot of people are in jail mostly because they are crazy.
-
Drugs. The U.S., as Copper has pointed out, is a country where even poor people have disposable income. Couple that with the underground drug economy and we have lots of folks in jail who committed their crimes while high as a kite.
@Doctor-Phibes said in 15/9:
How many times do we have to learn that appeasement doesn’t work.
The US imprisons a larger proportion of its population than any other country in the world.
Got an answer for you. In fact, two.
-
Mental health. Our system sucks and it stems from the Reagan Administration...They bought into the whole medicate-and-close-the-institutions bit. That doesn't work. A lot of people are in jail mostly because they are crazy.
-
Drugs. The U.S., as Copper has pointed out, is a country where even poor people have disposable income. Couple that with the underground drug economy and we have lots of folks in jail who committed their crimes while high as a kite.
Is that different from other countries? Margaret Thatcher also closed the mental hospitals during the Reagan years - I actually call them the Thatcher years, but it's really debatable as to who copied who.
I'm sure we've all heard stories about people who have spent decades in jail for using or selling marijuana and other relatively minor offences.
As far as illegal drug use goes - is the rest of the West all that different? OK, Amsterdam might be an exception as it's not illegal. I believe the UK is pretty similar to the US in terms of drug use, and I don't see a massive difference in disposable income for regular folk.
-
-
I think alot of it is cultural/generational. You have to break the cycle when kids are kids, not waiting until they are adults.
If kids see nothing but others doing bad things, that becomes the normal behavior for them in their mind.
Or, if kids see adults reacting to any confrontation with violence rather than diplomacy, they will act the same way. It seems like the US, more than most places I have been to, have a tendency to try and act tougher than the other guy when there is a situation.
I have no idea on how to break the cycle however.
-
I think alot of it is cultural/generational. You have to break the cycle when kids are kids, not waiting until they are adults.
If kids see nothing but others doing bad things, that becomes the normal behavior for them in their mind.
Or, if kids see adults reacting to any confrontation with violence rather than diplomacy, they will act the same way. It seems like the US, more than most places I have been to, have a tendency to try and act tougher than the other guy when there is a situation.
I have no idea on how to break the cycle however.
@taiwan_girl said in 15/9:
I think alot of it is cultural/generational. You have to break the cycle when kids are kids, not waiting until they are adults.
If kids see nothing but others doing bad things, that becomes the normal behavior for them in their mind.
Or, if kids see adults reacting to any confrontation with violence rather than diplomacy, they will act the same way. It seems like the US, more than most places I have been to, have a tendency to try and act tougher than the other guy when there is a situation.
I have no idea on how to break the cycle however.
I agree, but a certain skin color correlation makes those observations third rail. Most people understand the primacy of culture in human thoughts and feels, but when culture correlates in inconvenient ways with skin color, our honest discussion stops. We stop making any attempt at understanding or solving anything, preferring instead to recite our virtuous narratives that have been systematically perpetuating the problem for generations.
-
I think alot of it is cultural/generational. You have to break the cycle when kids are kids, not waiting until they are adults.
If kids see nothing but others doing bad things, that becomes the normal behavior for them in their mind.
Or, if kids see adults reacting to any confrontation with violence rather than diplomacy, they will act the same way. It seems like the US, more than most places I have been to, have a tendency to try and act tougher than the other guy when there is a situation.
I have no idea on how to break the cycle however.
I don't think it's the people who are being imprisoned that are the problem. I think it's the justice system that is set up to imprison so many more people than elsewhere.
This isn't about race. It's about the justice system.
You keep locking people up, and yet crime doesn't go down.
Maybe it's not working?
On a related not, there are plenty of statistics that say the death penalty isn't a deterrent, and yet people still insist that it is. Why?
-
I don't think it's the people who are being imprisoned that are the problem. I think it's the justice system that is set up to imprison so many more people than elsewhere.
This isn't about race. It's about the justice system.
You keep locking people up, and yet crime doesn't go down.
Maybe it's not working?
On a related not, there are plenty of statistics that say the death penalty isn't a deterrent, and yet people still insist that it is. Why?
@Doctor-Phibes said in 15/9:
I don't think it's the people who are being imprisoned that are the problem. I think it's the justice system that is set up to imprison so many more people than elsewhere.
This isn't about race. It's about the justice system.
You keep locking people up, and yet crime doesn't go down.
Maybe it's not working?
On a related not, there are plenty of statistics that say the death penalty isn't a deterrent, and yet people still insist that it is. Why?
What I was getting at was, if certain cultures are a problem, and we refuse to consider ways to address that problem if those ways happen to contradict certain religious narratives, then we are stuck. You can read John McWhorter’s work if you want details of what I’m getting at. You have not laid out a compelling process of elimination that pinpoints the justice system as the main culprit.
-
@Doctor-Phibes said in 15/9:
I don't think it's the people who are being imprisoned that are the problem. I think it's the justice system that is set up to imprison so many more people than elsewhere.
This isn't about race. It's about the justice system.
You keep locking people up, and yet crime doesn't go down.
Maybe it's not working?
On a related not, there are plenty of statistics that say the death penalty isn't a deterrent, and yet people still insist that it is. Why?
What I was getting at was, if certain cultures are a problem, and we refuse to consider ways to address that problem if those ways happen to contradict certain religious narratives, then we are stuck. You can read John McWhorter’s work if you want details of what I’m getting at. You have not laid out a compelling process of elimination that pinpoints the justice system as the main culprit.
What I was getting at was, if certain cultures are a problem, and we refuse to consider ways to address that problem if those ways happen to contradict certain religious narratives, then we are stuck. You can read John McWhorter’s work if you want details of what I’m getting at. You have not laid out a compelling process of elimination that pinpoints the justice system as the main culprit.
I don't believe that American society is particularly different from most of Western Europe, and yet you imprison significantly more people than any Western European country. I think the reason for this is that the justice system imprisons people as a matter of course.
Admittedly, you do go on about race a lot more than almost any other country in the world. Maybe that's something. If I was black and people went on about race as much as you guys do, I might start robbing shit.
-
What I was getting at was, if certain cultures are a problem, and we refuse to consider ways to address that problem if those ways happen to contradict certain religious narratives, then we are stuck. You can read John McWhorter’s work if you want details of what I’m getting at. You have not laid out a compelling process of elimination that pinpoints the justice system as the main culprit.
I don't believe that American society is particularly different from most of Western Europe, and yet you imprison significantly more people than any Western European country. I think the reason for this is that the justice system imprisons people as a matter of course.
Admittedly, you do go on about race a lot more than almost any other country in the world. Maybe that's something. If I was black and people went on about race as much as you guys do, I might start robbing shit.
@Doctor-Phibes said in 15/9:
What I was getting at was, if certain cultures are a problem, and we refuse to consider ways to address that problem if those ways happen to contradict certain religious narratives, then we are stuck. You can read John McWhorter’s work if you want details of what I’m getting at. You have not laid out a compelling process of elimination that pinpoints the justice system as the main culprit.
I don't believe that American society is particularly different from most of Western Europe, and yet you imprison significantly more people than any Western European country. I think the reason for this is that the justice system imprisons people as a matter of course.
Admittedly, you do go on about race a lot more than almost any other country in the world. Maybe that's something. If I was black and people went on about race as much as you guys do, I might start robbing shit.
We go on about race in all the wrong ways, which end up perpetuating the problems.
-
@Doctor-Phibes said in 15/9:
Something is all fucked up, certainly.
You've made this comment several times. Like LuFin's Dad, I don't dispute it.
But, any idea as to the cause?
More importantly, any idea as to a solution?
-
In the war on drugs, it's pretty clear that drugs won.
