Student loan cancellation
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@Jolly said in Student loan cancellation:
Why doesn't the Whitehouse concentrate on making college and vocational programs more affordable? That would have a larger positive political appeal.
Right?
Make student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, and end the federal guarantee. That way the credit markets will prevent students from getting in over their head.
Then subsidize state schools and community colleges in clever ways. Make them design a 4 year degree program for $x, probably hybrid online/in person.
@jon-nyc said in Student loan cancellation:
Make student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, and end the federal guarantee. That way the credit markets will prevent students from getting in over their head.
Then subsidize state schools and community colleges in clever ways. Make them design a 4 year degree program for $x, probably hybrid online/in person.Excellent suggestions.
Interesting to see so many Democrats distancing themselves from Biden on this one. They know it's a losing issue for much of the electorate.
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@jon-nyc said in Student loan cancellation:
Make student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, and end the federal guarantee. That way the credit markets will prevent students from getting in over their head.
Then subsidize state schools and community colleges in clever ways. Make them design a 4 year degree program for $x, probably hybrid online/in person.Excellent suggestions.
Interesting to see so many Democrats distancing themselves from Biden on this one. They know it's a losing issue for much of the electorate.
@George-K said in Student loan cancellation:
@jon-nyc said in Student loan cancellation:
Make student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, and end the federal guarantee. That way the credit markets will prevent students from getting in over their head.
Then subsidize state schools and community colleges in clever ways. Make them design a 4 year degree program for $x, probably hybrid online/in person.Excellent suggestions.
Interesting to see so many Democrats distancing themselves from Biden on this one. They know it's a losing issue for much of the electorate.
Cites? I haven’t been any, but haven’t looked, either.
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@George-K said in Student loan cancellation:
@jon-nyc said in Student loan cancellation:
Make student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, and end the federal guarantee. That way the credit markets will prevent students from getting in over their head.
Then subsidize state schools and community colleges in clever ways. Make them design a 4 year degree program for $x, probably hybrid online/in person.Excellent suggestions.
Interesting to see so many Democrats distancing themselves from Biden on this one. They know it's a losing issue for much of the electorate.
Cites? I haven’t been any, but haven’t looked, either.
@LuFins-Dad said in Student loan cancellation:
Cites? I haven’t been any, but haven’t looked, either.
https://www.politico.com/playbook
Sen. CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO (D-Nev.): “I don’t agree with today’s executive action because it doesn’t address the root problems that make college unaffordable. We should be focusing on passing my legislation to expand Pell Grants for lower income students, target loan forgiveness to those in need, and actually make college more affordable for working families.”
Rep. JARED GOLDEN (D-Maine): “This decision by the president is out of touch with what the majority of the American people want from the White House, which is leadership to address the most immediate challenges the country is facing.”…
Rep. SHARICE DAVIDS (D-Kan.): “It’s not how I would have addressed the issue.”
More Democrats (BIRM) The Washington Post:
Widely canceling student loan debt is regressive. It takes money from the broader tax base, mostly made up of workers who did not go to college, to subsidize the education debt of people with valuable degrees. Though Mr. Biden’s plan includes an income cap, the threshold does not reflect need or earnings potential, meaning white-collar professionals with high future salaries stand to benefit. Student loans, moreover, are a poor proxy for household income: An analysis by policy researcher Jason D. Delisle found that, in 2016, students from high-income and low-income families were just as likely to take on debt for their first year in an undergraduate program — and students from high-income families borrowed the largest amounts.
How the student debt movement forced Biden’s hand
Mr. Biden’s plan is also expensive — and likely inflationary. The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates that extending the loan pause to the end of the year would cost $20 billion, while forgiving $10,000 for households making less than $300,000 would cost $230 billion. Together, these policies would nullify nearly a decade’s worth of deficit reduction from the Inflation Reduction Act. Moreover, it is unclear that the 1965 Higher Education Act even grants the president the legal authority to take such a sweeping step, given that it was historically understood to permit only more targeted relief -
The “This you?” meme in Twittersphere:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/aug/25/this-you-meme-biden-student-loan-forgiveness-twitter
Basically it goes like this:
- A critic (usually a politician) of student loan forgiveness tweets something about why loan forgiveness is bad (e.g., it may encourage more irresponsible borrowings, it is unfair to get the tax payers to foot the bills, etc.)
- Then some other Twitterite would respond with a screenshot/news clipping of said critic having taking advantage of loan forgiveness in the past asking “This you?” (E.g., the critic has previously taken a PPP loan or a farm-related loan that has since been forgiven.)
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The “This you?” meme in Twittersphere:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/aug/25/this-you-meme-biden-student-loan-forgiveness-twitter
Basically it goes like this:
- A critic (usually a politician) of student loan forgiveness tweets something about why loan forgiveness is bad (e.g., it may encourage more irresponsible borrowings, it is unfair to get the tax payers to foot the bills, etc.)
- Then some other Twitterite would respond with a screenshot/news clipping of said critic having taking advantage of loan forgiveness in the past asking “This you?” (E.g., the critic has previously taken a PPP loan or a farm-related loan that has since been forgiven.)
@Axtremus said in Student loan cancellation:
The “This you?” meme in Twittersphere:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/aug/25/this-you-meme-biden-student-loan-forgiveness-twitter
Basically it goes like this:
- A critic (usually a politician) of student loan forgiveness tweets something about why loan forgiveness is bad (e.g., it may encourage more irresponsible borrowings, it is unfair to get the tax payers to foot the bills, etc.)
- Then some other Twitterite would respond with a screenshot/news clipping of said critic having taking advantage of loan forgiveness in the past asking “This you?” (E.g., the critic has previously taken a PPP loan or a farm-related loan that has since been forgiven.)
Yep, and it’s an idiotic attempt at an attack, anyway.
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The loan forgiveness of the PPP loans were a feature of the program. The forgiveness was an agreed to condition. Forgiveness was never a feature of the Federal Student Loans. There are no conditions required of the student except pay back the money at the agreed upon schedule., no forgiveness…There is no equivalence.
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Even if there was equivalence, people are still entitled to criticize programs that they are receiving benefits from. I still criticize the stimulus payments. I didn’t send them back though. Whether we kept the payments or not, I am still going to pay for them, as will Luke and Finley, so those were donated to a few worthy causes and invested into college funds. I feel no ethical dilemma over it. The payments were wrong, and we are seeing some of the repercussions of them now, but there is no moral high ground to turning away the payments so they can be squandered some other way…
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22 Republican Governors publish joint open letter opposing student loan forgiveness:
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I cannot help but compare the real benefits if we used that money to fix our immigration system.
@Mik said in Student loan cancellation:
I cannot help but compare the real benefits if we used that money to fix our immigration system.
Can we really use that “money” for anything else? There is no “new money” minted in this “forgiveness” business. The “money” has been paid out long ago as “loans.” Even without forgiveness, the repayment will be at best partial and will be spread over multiple years (perhaps well more than a decade), and whatever money used to repay the loans would just come from other parts of the overall economy anyway.
But if the comparison is for future appropriations of new funds between “helping students in America” and “fixing our immigration system,” that would be a different argument worth having.
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@Mik said in Student loan cancellation:
I cannot help but compare the real benefits if we used that money to fix our immigration system.
Can we really use that “money” for anything else? There is no “new money” minted in this “forgiveness” business. The “money” has been paid out long ago as “loans.” Even without forgiveness, the repayment will be at best partial and will be spread over multiple years (perhaps well more than a decade), and whatever money used to repay the loans would just come from other parts of the overall economy anyway.
But if the comparison is for future appropriations of new funds between “helping students in America” and “fixing our immigration system,” that would be a different argument worth having.
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It'll cost $400 billion.
The CBO:
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Dear Members of Congress:
This letter responds to some questions you asked about the effects of President Biden’s August 24, 2022, announcement on executive actions affecting student loans.
• The cost of outstanding student loans will increase by $20 billion because an action suspended payments, interest accrual, and involuntary collections from September 2022 to December 2022, the Congressional Budget Office estimates. That present-value cost is relative to the amounts in CBO’s May 2022 baseline projections.
• After accounting for those suspensions, CBO estimates that the cost of student loans will increase by about an additional $400 billion in present value as a result of the action canceling up to $10,000 of debt issued on or before June 30, 2022, for borrowers with income below specified limits and an additional $10,000 for such borrowers who also received at least one Pell grant.
CBO continues to analyze the executive actions and will publish additional estimates as soon as they are completed. The estimates presented here do not include any effects of the actions affecting income-driven repayment plans, any other changes in loan terms, or effects on loans issued after June 30, 2022. The present values of expected reductions of cash inflows to the Treasury are calculated by discounting those flows as specified by the Federal Credit Reform Act (FCRA). They rely on information available as of today about the executive actions, though more may become available when the application for canceling debt is published.
The cost of debt cancellation is the present value of the borrowers’ projected repayments of student debt before accounting for the cancellation minus the present value of repayments after doing so. As specified by FCRA, the costs of payment suspension and of debt cancellation will be recorded by the Office of Management and Budget in the federal budget as an increase in the deficit during the fiscal year in which the terms of the loans are modified. CBO will report those amounts in its Monthly Budget Review after they are recorded.
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Very interesting law suit. Remember the main problem isn’t the legal case against what the Feds are doing, it’s been finding some person or entity harmed by it such that he or it has standing.
This guy was already going to get relief under a current program but one that is explicitly exempt from state tax. So the Biden plan makes him worse off.
According to Garrison, he is already receiving debt relief under Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF), a federal program for borrowers who work in public service at nonprofit organizations. Qualifying borrowers who make a certain number of payments and meet maximum income requirements can have the rest of their debts forgiven by PSLF. Garrison expects to qualify in about four years.
Importantly, debt relief under PSLF is not subject to state taxes. Biden's broad forgiveness plan, however, will be taxed as income in Indiana—where Garrison resides—as well as Wisconsin, North Carolina, Minnesota, Mississippi, and Arkansas. Garrison will be "stuck with a tax bill that makes him financially worse off than continuing with his repayment program under PSLF," according to the lawsuit. "He did not ask for cancellation, doesn't want it, and has no way to opt out of it."
https://reason.com/2022/09/27/biden-student-loan-forgiveness-lawsuit-pacific-legal-foundation/
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Missouri Republican Senator Josh Hawley introduced the “Make the Universities Pay Act” on Sept. 21 in the wake of President Joe Biden’s announcement that taxpayers will absorb student loan debt to the tune of at least $400 billion, estimated to cost individual American taxpayers $2,500 each.
“For decades, universities have amassed billion-dollar endowments while teaching nonsense like men can get pregnant. All while charging extortionary tuition,” Senator Hawley stated in a news release.
“Now Joe Biden wants to give away another $1 trillion to prop up the system. That’s wrong. Instead, it’s time to put universities on the hook and give students the information they need to make informed decisions.”
The bill would also qualify student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy. Currently, the only debts that are dischargeable include credit card balances, medical bills, personal loans, unpaid utilities and phone bills.
Under Hawley’s six-page proposal, colleges also could not raise tuition to remedy the new expense if approved. The bill prohibits tuition and fee increases unless there is an equivalent percentage decrease in administrative expenses.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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Missouri Republican Senator Josh Hawley introduced the “Make the Universities Pay Act” on Sept. 21 in the wake of President Joe Biden’s announcement that taxpayers will absorb student loan debt to the tune of at least $400 billion, estimated to cost individual American taxpayers $2,500 each.
“For decades, universities have amassed billion-dollar endowments while teaching nonsense like men can get pregnant. All while charging extortionary tuition,” Senator Hawley stated in a news release.
“Now Joe Biden wants to give away another $1 trillion to prop up the system. That’s wrong. Instead, it’s time to put universities on the hook and give students the information they need to make informed decisions.”
The bill would also qualify student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy. Currently, the only debts that are dischargeable include credit card balances, medical bills, personal loans, unpaid utilities and phone bills.
Under Hawley’s six-page proposal, colleges also could not raise tuition to remedy the new expense if approved. The bill prohibits tuition and fee increases unless there is an equivalent percentage decrease in administrative expenses.
@George-K said in Student loan cancellation:
Missouri Republican Senator Josh Hawley introduced the “Make the Universities Pay Act” on Sept. 21 in the wake of President Joe Biden’s announcement that taxpayers will absorb student loan debt to the tune of at least $400 billion, estimated to cost individual American taxpayers $2,500 each.
“For decades, universities have amassed billion-dollar endowments while teaching nonsense like men can get pregnant. All while charging extortionary tuition,” Senator Hawley stated in a news release.
“Now Joe Biden wants to give away another $1 trillion to prop up the system. That’s wrong. Instead, it’s time to put universities on the hook and give students the information they need to make informed decisions.”
The bill would also qualify student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy. Currently, the only debts that are dischargeable include credit card balances, medical bills, personal loans, unpaid utilities and phone bills.
Under Hawley’s six-page proposal, colleges also could not raise tuition to remedy the new expense if approved. The bill prohibits tuition and fee increases unless there is an equivalent percentage decrease in administrative expenses.
Hawley's makes more sense than Biden's.
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Missouri Republican Senator Josh Hawley introduced the “Make the Universities Pay Act” on Sept. 21 in the wake of President Joe Biden’s announcement that taxpayers will absorb student loan debt to the tune of at least $400 billion, estimated to cost individual American taxpayers $2,500 each.
“For decades, universities have amassed billion-dollar endowments while teaching nonsense like men can get pregnant. All while charging extortionary tuition,” Senator Hawley stated in a news release.
“Now Joe Biden wants to give away another $1 trillion to prop up the system. That’s wrong. Instead, it’s time to put universities on the hook and give students the information they need to make informed decisions.”
The bill would also qualify student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy. Currently, the only debts that are dischargeable include credit card balances, medical bills, personal loans, unpaid utilities and phone bills.
Under Hawley’s six-page proposal, colleges also could not raise tuition to remedy the new expense if approved. The bill prohibits tuition and fee increases unless there is an equivalent percentage decrease in administrative expenses.
@George-K said in Student loan cancellation:
Missouri Republican Senator Josh Hawley introduced the “Make the Universities Pay Act” on Sept. 21 in the wake of President Joe Biden’s announcement that taxpayers will absorb student loan debt to the tune of at least $400 billion, estimated to cost individual American taxpayers $2,500 each.
“For decades, universities have amassed billion-dollar endowments while teaching nonsense like men can get pregnant. All while charging extortionary tuition,” Senator Hawley stated in a news release.
“Now Joe Biden wants to give away another $1 trillion to prop up the system. That’s wrong. Instead, it’s time to put universities on the hook and give students the information they need to make informed decisions.”
The bill would also qualify student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy. Currently, the only debts that are dischargeable include credit card balances, medical bills, personal loans, unpaid utilities and phone bills.
Under Hawley’s six-page proposal, colleges also could not raise tuition to remedy the new expense if approved. The bill prohibits tuition and fee increases unless there is an equivalent percentage decrease in administrative expenses.
Making student loans dischargeable in bankruptcy is appropriate and the best possible reform. Everything else I read there is hyperbole and in some ways counterproductive.
Let the banks have to actually take a risk on each college loan. This will lower the number and amounts of loans given and will necessitate tuition and educational reform from the schools themselves.
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I wonder what the consensus opinion of formally trained economists is, regarding this economic issue that is directly in their wheelhouse of formal study?
at McDonald's.
