Police vs. Prisons in the US and Europe
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@Jolly said in Police vs. Prisons in the US and Europe:
Some thoughts...
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Community policing. I think it helps to have food with regular beats in urban areas. I also think it helps to have cops living in neighborhoods.
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I'm not sure bodycams help or hurt. They can police bad cops, but they also limit a cop's flexibility.
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Historically speaking, crime is not as awful as we think.
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Education and training can help alleviate poverty, which in turn lowers crime.
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People need some Jesus. Or Yahweh. Or Buddha. Or something to replace the nothingness of the secular life.
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Some procedures do need to be changed, such as doing away with No-knock Warrants.
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I can see having SWAT teams, but AFVs in a police department are a bit much. Next thing, they'll want helicopter gunships.
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Prisons. Prisons should be rural. They should grow much of their own food using innate labor. Emphasis should be placed on training and education. And churches. I'll flesh that last statement out, if y'all want to know why.
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Respect for authority. A lot of blacks die by cop, simply because they are raised with no respect for authority.
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Agitators and outside money. I talked last week with a friend who was enduring a protest march in her hometown. She knows many of the police and all good her the same thing...Almost all of the protesters arrived by bus and it was very evident they were organized and commanded by one man and two helpers. I'm not sure what can be done about that, but outside people should not be disrupting a community (and costing them money) unless a certain percentage of the community wants these protesters brought in...
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Yep. Trade schools and apprenticeships FTW
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And chokeholds
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Demilitarize. yes.
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Yes. We let prisoners lift weights, get stronger and come out of prison with nothing but more advanced criminal skills. Again, trade schools and apprenticeships. Here in Cincinnati we have a company called Nehemiah Manufacturing that has been very successful putting people released from jail into jobs. It's a model that can be followed anywhere. https://www.nehemiahmfg.com/
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Public hangings for paid, imported protestors and those who hire them. Whoops..that might be a little over the line. Not much, but still......
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@jon-nyc said in Police vs. Prisons in the US and Europe:
You live in suburbia. In NYC they walk around and talk to people a lot.
I still think Phibes is right that the relationship to policemen is different. Talking to a policeman here feels like talking to any other person. The threat of authority and potential violence isn't permanently in the air. That's different in the US, I think.
I mean, just look at the protocol of a standard traffic check. Americans stay in their car and are worried that they'll be shot otherwise. Policemen approach the car under the default assumption that somebody might draw a shotgun or something at any second. It's a situation with a lot of tension. If they want to detain you, even for very minor things, they handcuff you and throw you into a car with security glass. These kinds of things are very different here.
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@Klaus said in Police vs. Prisons in the US and Europe:
@jon-nyc said in Police vs. Prisons in the US and Europe:
You live in suburbia. In NYC they walk around and talk to people a lot.
I still think Phibes is right that the relationship to policemen is different. Talking to a policeman here feels like talking to any other person. The threat of authority and potential violence isn't permanently in the air. That's different in the US, I think.
I mean, just look at the protocol of a standard traffic check. Americans stay in their car and are worried that they'll be shot otherwise. Policemen approach the car under the default assumption that somebody might draw a shotgun or something at any second. It's a situation with a lot of tension. If they want to detain you, even for very minor things, they handcuff you and throw you into a car with security glass. These kinds of things are very different here.
Lawyers.
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Speaking of prison jobs...Two jobs are very coveted at Angola:
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The golf course. Angola is the only prison in America with a nine hole good course. They have one to a) keep more guards on the grounds after their working hours and on the weekends and b) to train prisoners in all aspects of good course maintenance. The prison has a waiting list from outside, wanting to hire groundskeepers.
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Prison cook at Camp A. Camp A has the Death Row inmates, but it is also next to the Administration buildings. The best cooks from the various camps are pulled to Camp A to cook. There, they are taught all aspects of cooking in, and running a commercial kitchen. As trustees, they are then sent to the Governor's Mansion, where they serve our their term cooking for the governor and whomever he entertains. Those guys are usually hired immediately on release.
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"My pronouns are FA/FO." - Mik, 2024
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@Mik said in Police vs. Prisons in the US and Europe:
Teach a man to fish.
True, but not all of the time. There are some really talented guys down on The Farm. They are allowed to sell their art, craft projects, metal works and wood works at the prison rodeo.
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@Klaus said in Police vs. Prisons in the US and Europe:
@jon-nyc said in Police vs. Prisons in the US and Europe:
You live in suburbia. In NYC they walk around and talk to people a lot.
I still think Phibes is right that the relationship to policemen is different. Talking to a policeman here feels like talking to any other person. The threat of authority and potential violence isn't permanently in the air. That's different in the US, I think.
I mean, just look at the protocol of a standard traffic check. Americans stay in their car and are worried that they'll be shot otherwise. Policemen approach the car under the default assumption that somebody might draw a shotgun or something at any second. It's a situation with a lot of tension. If they want to detain you, even for very minor things, they handcuff you and throw you into a car with security glass. These kinds of things are very different here.
The difference is nothing new. An English friend of my dad's came over here in the 1960's, and got pulled over by the police for some minor infringement. As the cop walked over, my dad's friend opened the car door, with the idea of apologizing and explaining to the police. To his amazement, the cop pulled a gun on him.
And to repeat a point I've complained about in the past - if you want to forge a bond with the public, try ditching the militaristic looking riding breeches and the mirrored sunglasses.
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@Copper said in Police vs. Prisons in the US and Europe:
Deputize everyone
About 70 percent of America's firefighters are volunteers, and 85 percent of the nation's fire departments are all or mostly volunteer,
Make the PD work like the FD
Maybe use something like the military draft
Do you know how many Volunteer Firefighters are arsonists? You would be surprised. I would hate to see the same thing happen with police.
Me/rry/Christmas
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@LuFins-Dad said in Police vs. Prisons in the US and Europe:
I would hate to see the same thing happen with police.
cnn would give you the impression that it already has.
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I would be interested in some input from Taiwan Girl.
She has extensive experience working throughout Asia or SE Asia, I'd like to know her assessment of what she has experienced or seen in terms of the police, and incarceration. With any luck, she's been in jail in some of these countries, and can give some firsthand input.
In terms of the police during the Soviet era, I was told by a relative that police are "like a hot stove." You stay away and avoid them altogether.
Many of the ideas everyone has expressed, have been tried in the past, or are currently part of the justice system. So, how is it that good ideas revert back to the mean, which is not acceptible? My guess is that budget and appropriations slowly decrease, that good programs and good ideas end up under the "there's not enough money in the budget."
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@Rainman said in Police vs. Prisons in the US and Europe:
With any luck, she's been in jail in some of these countries, and can give some firsthand input.
LOL Rainman. I guess you have not read my book - "My Five Years in Thai Prison"
There are so many cultural differences that make comparisons between countries almost impossible as @Klaus and @Doctor-Phibes talk about.
On one far side is Japan (and other asian countries) - the good of society is more important than the good of any one individual. "Throw a piece of garbage on the street?? No way, that reflects badly on not only you, but the neighborhood, city, etc.
Society says that guns are inherently dangerous, so we are going to make it very very difficult to own a gun. No problem, says the individual."
There is much more a "us" mind think versus a "me" mind think. I sometimes am frustrated when I see people think more of themselves rather than the impact on others. But, that is the US way, and I dont think it will change very soon.
In general, (north) Asian culture wants you to conform to the average. It is good in keeping alot of things in line, but individual behavior is why the US has the greatest number of patents and inventions, etc/
