Mar-a-Lago raided
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Yet every criminal defense lawyer knows that search warrants are issued routinely and less critically than candy is distributed on Halloween; judges rarely exercise real discretion or real supervision.
Ken White disagrees, saying that a federal judge signing off on a warrant is nothing like that of a local/state judge.
I posted popehat's thread above.
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@Catseye3 said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Jolly: He sent them the 15 boxes they requested.
Cats: If he did, he did. What's your source?
Jolly: February. Taken back by the National Archives.
I did some checking. Below are excerpts from various media; only two specifically claimed that Trump "sent them back": Fox and Trump himself. All the others used phrases like "NARA retrieved" or "recovered" the boxes, leaving out how it was done.
So the media were throughout coy about explaining how they acquired the boxes. Obviously not by search warrant, but then how?
(For those interested in digging deeper into this story, I recommend you read the accounts from the Post and NYT that I cite below. I restricted my excerpting to the issue of NARA's acquisition of the documents to counter Jolly's claim that Trump sent them voluntarily. Maybe he did and maybe he didn't, but the question remains of how NARA got the boxes, and if Trump gave them up, why didn't the sources say so?
And no, it wasn't because Politico, the Post, NYT, CBS, Reuters and CNN all were conspiring against Trump.)
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^“The raid followed reporting earlier this year that the Justice Department had been asked by the National Archives to look into the former president’s handling of records after more than a dozen boxes, including some containing classified information, were recovered by Archives officials that Trump should have turned over.” – Politico: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3593896-eric-trump-fbi-mar-a-lago-search-focused-on-documents-sought-by-national-archives/
“NARA notified Congress in February that the agency recovered the 15 boxes from Mar-a-Lago and "identified items marked as classified national security information within the boxes . . . "The National Archives did not ‘find’ anything, they were given, upon request, Presidential Records in an ordinary and routine process to ensure the preservation of my legacy and in accordance with the Presidential Records Act," Trump said in a statement at the time, adding that Democrats "are in search of their next Scam." Then: “The matter was referred to the Justice Department by NARA.” -- https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-raid-linked-doj-national-archives-probe-into-classified-docs-allegedly-taken-mar-a-lago
“Sources confirmed to CBS News the search by federal law enforcement is connected to an investigation by the Justice Department of claims by the National Archives and Records Administration that it retrieved 15 boxes of records, some of which contained classified material, from Mar-a-Lago in mid-January . . . But Trump has maintained his records were turned over to the National Archives "in an ordinary and routine process to ensure the preservation of my legacy and in accordance with the Presidential Records Act." -- https://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-look-at-the-law-governing-presidential-records/
“The National Archives and Records Administration last month [Jan 2022] retrieved 15 boxes of documents and other items from former president Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence because the material should have been turned over to the agency when he left the White House, Archives officials said Monday . . . Archives officials confirmed the transfer, which occurred in mid-January, following publication of a version of this story by The Washington Post earlier Monday. The National Archives and Records Administration said in a statement that “these records should have been transferred to NARA from the White House at the end of the Trump Administration in January 2021,” and that Trump representatives are “continuing to search” for additional records.” -- https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/07/trump-records-mar-a-lago/
“Last month, the archives retrieved 15 boxes that Mr. Trump took with him to his Mar-a-Lago home from the White House residence when his term ended. The boxes included material subject to the Presidential Records Act, which requires that all documents and records pertaining to official business be turned over to the archives . . . The items in the boxes included documents, mementos, gifts and letters. The archives did not describe the classified material it found other than to say that it was “classified national security information.” . . . Because the National Archives “identified classified information in the boxes,” the agency “has been in communication with the Department of Justice,” said the letter . . . https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/18/us/politics/trump-archives-white-house.html
“Former President Donald Trump took classified information to his Florida home after leaving the White House, the U.S. National Archives and Records Administration said in a letter to Congress on Friday about the 15 boxes of documents it recently recovered . . . The Archives said it had informed the Department of Justice, which would handle any investigation.” -- https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-took-classified-material-white-house-florida-national-archives-says-2022-02-18/
“The Archives arranged for the transport of about 15 boxes of records from Trump's Florida resort last month after the agency sought them from the former President's team.” -- https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/18/politics/national-archives-trump-department-of-justice/index.html
Show me the word "voluntarily" in the sentence I wrote.
But it's nice you're doing research. I'm working off of memory.
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Off topic...
""We just want to go on record that anything bad they found is planted" is the sort of message you can get away with if your target audience is culty and dumb."
Worked for OJ, didn't it?
Because lawyers gotta lawyer, right?
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Off topic...
""We just want to go on record that anything bad they found is planted" is the sort of message you can get away with if your target audience is culty and dumb."
Worked for OJ, didn't it?
Because lawyers gotta lawyer, right?
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@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Yes and for the same reason. Dumb at least.
If you're going to make that kind of statement, you better have iron-clad evidence.
Unless, of course, you're speaking to the public and not the court.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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The FBI has been shown to have faked evidence in the past, in its pursuit of Trump. Not that I think it's plausible that they'll do it with this sort of spotlight on the situation, but let's be fair to those who don't trust this process.
Education is extremely important.
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@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Yes and for the same reason. Dumb at least.
If you're going to make that kind of statement, you better have iron-clad evidence.
Unless, of course, you're speaking to the public and not the court.
@George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Yes and for the same reason. Dumb at least.
If you're going to make that kind of statement, you better have iron-clad evidence.
Unless, of course, you're speaking to the public and not the court.
It's worth noting that Trump doesn't exactly have a stellar record in his choice of attorneys.
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@George-K said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Yes and for the same reason. Dumb at least.
If you're going to make that kind of statement, you better have iron-clad evidence.
Unless, of course, you're speaking to the public and not the court.
It's worth noting that Trump doesn't exactly have a stellar record in his choice of attorneys.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
It's worth noting that Trump doesn't exactly have a stellar record in his choice of attorneys.
There are so many responses queued up...
A simple LOL will have to suffice.
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The FBI has been shown to have faked evidence in the past, in its pursuit of Trump. Not that I think it's plausible that they'll do it with this sort of spotlight on the situation, but let's be fair to those who don't trust this process.
@Horace said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The FBI has been shown to have faked evidence in the past, in its pursuit of Trump. Not that I think it's plausible that they'll do it with this sort of spotlight on the situation, but let's be fair to those who don't trust this process.
That is a charitable argument. I’m curious if you would apply the analogous version of it to the jury in the OJ case too.
Only non-witches get due process.
- Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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@Horace said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The FBI has been shown to have faked evidence in the past, in its pursuit of Trump. Not that I think it's plausible that they'll do it with this sort of spotlight on the situation, but let's be fair to those who don't trust this process.
That is a charitable argument. I’m curious if you would apply the analogous version of it to the jury in the OJ case too.
@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@Horace said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The FBI has been shown to have faked evidence in the past, in its pursuit of Trump. Not that I think it's plausible that they'll do it with this sort of spotlight on the situation, but let's be fair to those who don't trust this process.
That is a charitable argument. I’m curious if you would apply the analogous version of it to the jury in the OJ case too.
You quoted me saying I don't think it's plausible that they'll plant evidence in this situation. I am trying to humanize those who might have suspicions in that direction, perhaps unsuccessfully. I'm trying to encourage us all to have more compassion for others. It's important to me, one of my primary principles. Caring for others.
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@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@Horace said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The FBI has been shown to have faked evidence in the past, in its pursuit of Trump. Not that I think it's plausible that they'll do it with this sort of spotlight on the situation, but let's be fair to those who don't trust this process.
That is a charitable argument. I’m curious if you would apply the analogous version of it to the jury in the OJ case too.
You quoted me saying I don't think it's plausible that they'll plant evidence in this situation. I am trying to humanize those who might have suspicions in that direction, perhaps unsuccessfully. I'm trying to encourage us all to have more compassion for others. It's important to me, one of my primary principles. Caring for others.
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@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The thing to remember when listening to her is that she knows exactly what the FBI was looking for and why, and presumably what they found, at least of her client’s team is being honest with her.
So the fact that she’s casting aspersions is not a good sign for team Trump. She’s pretending to speak in hypothetical terms, but she almost certainly knows what they found.
Popcorn, please.
Only non-witches get due process.
- Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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Fair enough. And it’s a charitable view. An analogous argument can be and was used in defense of the OJ jury. I was curious if you’ve applied it to them.
@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Fair enough. And it’s a charitable view. An analogous argument can be and was used in defense of the OJ jury. I was curious if you’ve applied it to them.
What, that people have emotions around bad cop behavior? As an inhabitant of reality, I acknowledge that in all situations.
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@Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The Dersh speaks:
I don’t know why people listen to Dersch or Tribe on the left. They’re simply old guys who harvested their former reputation in service of partisan ends. They are literally paid partisan shills.
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@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The thing to remember when listening to her is that she knows exactly what the FBI was looking for and why, and presumably what they found, at least of her client’s team is being honest with her.
So the fact that she’s casting aspersions is not a good sign for team Trump. She’s pretending to speak in hypothetical terms, but she almost certainly knows what they found.
Popcorn, please.
@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The thing to remember when listening to her is that she knows exactly what the FBI was looking for and why, and presumably what they found, at least of her client’s team is being honest with her.
So the fact that she’s casting aspersions is not a good sign for team Trump. She’s pretending to speak in hypothetical terms, but she almost certainly knows what they found.
Popcorn, please.
Also their messaging pretty much guarantees this isn’t merely about classified docs. After all, they have a defense for that - the president is the ultimate authority on classification and can declassify anything at will.
The “they planted evidence” messaging that they are rolling out means this is about very specific crimes.
