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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. How much energy?

How much energy?

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  • George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    It's "Prager U" so make of it what you will. But if it's even 30% right...

    Link to video

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • Catseye3C Offline
      Catseye3C Offline
      Catseye3
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      I didn't watch. The first thought that occurred to me was about the anecdote where a little girl asked Abraham Lincoln how long his legs were, and he replied, long enough to reach the ground.

      Probably that would apply to anyone's theory about how much energy will be needed. Particularly if the theorizer is an economist.

      Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

      George KG 1 Reply Last reply
      • Catseye3C Catseye3

        I didn't watch. The first thought that occurred to me was about the anecdote where a little girl asked Abraham Lincoln how long his legs were, and he replied, long enough to reach the ground.

        Probably that would apply to anyone's theory about how much energy will be needed. Particularly if the theorizer is an economist.

        George KG Offline
        George KG Offline
        George K
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        @Catseye3 he makes some interesting, and scary, points. One of them is that the need for "energy" is greater than the need for energy itself. For so-ccalled "green energy," you need minerals: copper, iron, lithium, and rare earth metals. You get them by ... mining. And there is such a push against mining in this country because it's "not green."

        Have you ever seen a photo of a lithium mine? That;s where batteries are born.

        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • MikM Offline
          MikM Offline
          Mik
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          For any foreseeable real progress in emissions it has to be nuclear.

          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

          1 Reply Last reply
          • JollyJ Offline
            JollyJ Offline
            Jolly
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            People have their personal opinions about the PragerU videos. I tend to find them non-screechy and usually informative.

            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

            1 Reply Last reply
            • MikM Offline
              MikM Offline
              Mik
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              They come from a given viewpoint, but yeah, they are primarily informative and allow the viewer to reach their own conclusions.

              “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

              1 Reply Last reply
              • taiwan_girlT Offline
                taiwan_girlT Offline
                taiwan_girl
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                I think that the video does not mention is the advances in energy efficiency. For example, something like a refrigerator now uses about 4x LESS energy than just 20 years ago for the same cooling. I am sure that for a refrigerator 50 years ago, the energy usage is probably almost 100x less.

                I do agree that fossil fuel is not going away. Too much investment in "inter structure" etc It will decrease over time, but will be more of a slope than a cliff.

                I also agree with @mik Nuclear should be looked at more.

                (Funny, but I just read an article about the US Army and their attempts to use portable nuclear power on remote bases, the first time 60 years ago in Greenland

                https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2021/07/20/the-army-tried-portable-nuclear-power-at-remote-bases-60-years-ago-it-didnt-go-well/

                JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                  I think that the video does not mention is the advances in energy efficiency. For example, something like a refrigerator now uses about 4x LESS energy than just 20 years ago for the same cooling. I am sure that for a refrigerator 50 years ago, the energy usage is probably almost 100x less.

                  I do agree that fossil fuel is not going away. Too much investment in "inter structure" etc It will decrease over time, but will be more of a slope than a cliff.

                  I also agree with @mik Nuclear should be looked at more.

                  (Funny, but I just read an article about the US Army and their attempts to use portable nuclear power on remote bases, the first time 60 years ago in Greenland

                  https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2021/07/20/the-army-tried-portable-nuclear-power-at-remote-bases-60-years-ago-it-didnt-go-well/

                  JollyJ Offline
                  JollyJ Offline
                  Jolly
                  wrote on last edited by Jolly
                  #8

                  @taiwan_girl said in How much energy?:

                  I think that the video does not mention is the advances in energy efficiency. For example, something like a refrigerator now uses about 4x LESS energy than just 20 years ago for the same cooling. I am sure that for a refrigerator 50 years ago, the energy usage is probably almost 100x less.

                  I do agree that fossil fuel is not going away. Too much investment in "inter structure" etc It will decrease over time, but will be more of a slope than a cliff.

                  I also agree with @mik Nuclear should be looked at more.

                  (Funny, but I just read an article about the US Army and their attempts to use portable nuclear power on remote bases, the first time 60 years ago in Greenland

                  https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2021/07/20/the-army-tried-portable-nuclear-power-at-remote-bases-60-years-ago-it-didnt-go-well/

                  Problem is, how long does that refrigerator last?

                  I can show you multiple old refrigerators, 70 years old. Most people I talk to today, grumble about how short the life of a new frig is nowadays.

                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                  George KG taiwan_girlT 2 Replies Last reply
                  • MikM Offline
                    MikM Offline
                    Mik
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    And then you have to factor in the environmental impact of the raw materials, manufacturing and transportation of the multiple appliances that don't last too long, not just the cost to operate.

                    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • JollyJ Jolly

                      @taiwan_girl said in How much energy?:

                      I think that the video does not mention is the advances in energy efficiency. For example, something like a refrigerator now uses about 4x LESS energy than just 20 years ago for the same cooling. I am sure that for a refrigerator 50 years ago, the energy usage is probably almost 100x less.

                      I do agree that fossil fuel is not going away. Too much investment in "inter structure" etc It will decrease over time, but will be more of a slope than a cliff.

                      I also agree with @mik Nuclear should be looked at more.

                      (Funny, but I just read an article about the US Army and their attempts to use portable nuclear power on remote bases, the first time 60 years ago in Greenland

                      https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2021/07/20/the-army-tried-portable-nuclear-power-at-remote-bases-60-years-ago-it-didnt-go-well/

                      Problem is, how long does that refrigerator last?

                      I can show you multiple old refrigerators, 70 years old. Most people I talk to today, grumble about how short the life of a new frig is nowadays.

                      George KG Offline
                      George KG Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      @Jolly said in How much energy?:

                      I can show you multiple old refrigerators, 70 years old. Most people I talk to today, grumble about how short the life of a new frig is nowadays.

                      Brief aside...

                      George to refrigerator repair guy: "What's the best refrigerator to buy?"

                      Refrigerator repair guy: "Your mother's."

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                      • George KG George K

                        @Jolly said in How much energy?:

                        I can show you multiple old refrigerators, 70 years old. Most people I talk to today, grumble about how short the life of a new frig is nowadays.

                        Brief aside...

                        George to refrigerator repair guy: "What's the best refrigerator to buy?"

                        Refrigerator repair guy: "Your mother's."

                        Doctor PhibesD Online
                        Doctor PhibesD Online
                        Doctor Phibes
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        @George-K said in How much energy?:

                        @Jolly said in How much energy?:

                        I can show you multiple old refrigerators, 70 years old. Most people I talk to today, grumble about how short the life of a new frig is nowadays.

                        Brief aside...

                        George to refrigerator repair guy: "What's the best refrigerator to buy?"

                        Refrigerator repair guy: "Your mother's."

                        There's a dirty joke in there somewhere.

                        I was only joking

                        HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                        • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                          @George-K said in How much energy?:

                          @Jolly said in How much energy?:

                          I can show you multiple old refrigerators, 70 years old. Most people I talk to today, grumble about how short the life of a new frig is nowadays.

                          Brief aside...

                          George to refrigerator repair guy: "What's the best refrigerator to buy?"

                          Refrigerator repair guy: "Your mother's."

                          There's a dirty joke in there somewhere.

                          HoraceH Offline
                          HoraceH Offline
                          Horace
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          @Doctor-Phibes said in How much energy?:

                          @George-K said in How much energy?:

                          @Jolly said in How much energy?:

                          I can show you multiple old refrigerators, 70 years old. Most people I talk to today, grumble about how short the life of a new frig is nowadays.

                          Brief aside...

                          George to refrigerator repair guy: "What's the best refrigerator to buy?"

                          Refrigerator repair guy: "Your mother's."

                          There's a dirty joke in there somewhere.

                          Definitely not anything along the lines of a frigid ice box for sale.

                          Education is extremely important.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • KlausK Online
                            KlausK Online
                            Klaus
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            The world will need 1.21 jigawatts of energy.

                            jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                            • KlausK Klaus

                              The world will need 1.21 jigawatts of energy.

                              jon-nycJ Offline
                              jon-nycJ Offline
                              jon-nyc
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              @Klaus said in How much energy?:

                              The world will need 1.21 jigawatts of energy.

                              Jiggity.

                              "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                              -Cormac McCarthy

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • JollyJ Jolly

                                @taiwan_girl said in How much energy?:

                                I think that the video does not mention is the advances in energy efficiency. For example, something like a refrigerator now uses about 4x LESS energy than just 20 years ago for the same cooling. I am sure that for a refrigerator 50 years ago, the energy usage is probably almost 100x less.

                                I do agree that fossil fuel is not going away. Too much investment in "inter structure" etc It will decrease over time, but will be more of a slope than a cliff.

                                I also agree with @mik Nuclear should be looked at more.

                                (Funny, but I just read an article about the US Army and their attempts to use portable nuclear power on remote bases, the first time 60 years ago in Greenland

                                https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2021/07/20/the-army-tried-portable-nuclear-power-at-remote-bases-60-years-ago-it-didnt-go-well/

                                Problem is, how long does that refrigerator last?

                                I can show you multiple old refrigerators, 70 years old. Most people I talk to today, grumble about how short the life of a new frig is nowadays.

                                taiwan_girlT Offline
                                taiwan_girlT Offline
                                taiwan_girl
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                @Jolly said in How much energy?:

                                @taiwan_girl said in How much energy?:

                                I think that the video does not mention is the advances in energy efficiency. For example, something like a refrigerator now uses about 4x LESS energy than just 20 years ago for the same cooling. I am sure that for a refrigerator 50 years ago, the energy usage is probably almost 100x less.

                                I do agree that fossil fuel is not going away. Too much investment in "inter structure" etc It will decrease over time, but will be more of a slope than a cliff.

                                I also agree with @mik Nuclear should be looked at more.

                                (Funny, but I just read an article about the US Army and their attempts to use portable nuclear power on remote bases, the first time 60 years ago in Greenland

                                https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2021/07/20/the-army-tried-portable-nuclear-power-at-remote-bases-60-years-ago-it-didnt-go-well/

                                Problem is, how long does that refrigerator last?

                                I can show you multiple old refrigerators, 70 years old. Most people I talk to today, grumble about how short the life of a new frig is nowadays.

                                I agree, but I also think it would be possible to build a long lasting energy efficient refrigerator. Right now, the manufacturing/disposal/raw material means that a long lasting energy efficienct fridge would cost more and not too many people would buy it.

                                If for example, disposal costs increase by alot, then more incentive to build them to last longer.

                                I think that humans are good at adapting to what is needed.

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