Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade
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@George-K said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
The man accused of killing seven people attending a parade in Highland Park, Illinois, on the Fourth of July has confessed to his role in the massacre
I'm surprised to see this. I'd have thought his public defender would have discouraged it as harmful to his interests at trial.
@Catseye3 said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
I'm surprised to see this. I'd have thought his public defender would have discouraged it as harmful to his interests at trial.
Me too. Perhaps he thinks he'll get a more lenient sentence if he pleads guilty. OTOH, he's facing 7 counts of first-degree murder, and there's no death penalty in Illinois, so...
But I've also heard that there's a possibility of him being charged with federal crimes (terrorism), and the death penalty is on the table.
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Japan, which has about 150 million people, has about 10 gun dead per year.
Requirements to own a gun in Japan
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go to an all day class
-
pass a written test on guns
-
achieve 95% accuracy at the shooting range
-
mental health evaluation at hospital
-
background check with includes interviews with family and friends
-
every three years, repeat
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each county can have a maximum of three gun shops
-
to get a new gun clip of ammunition, must turn in an empty one
-
when a gun owner dies, their guns much be turned in
-
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Japan, which has about 150 million people, has about 10 gun dead per year.
Requirements to own a gun in Japan
-
go to an all day class
-
pass a written test on guns
-
achieve 95% accuracy at the shooting range
-
mental health evaluation at hospital
-
background check with includes interviews with family and friends
-
every three years, repeat
-
each county can have a maximum of three gun shops
-
to get a new gun clip of ammunition, must turn in an empty one
-
when a gun owner dies, their guns much be turned in
@taiwan_girl said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
Requirements to own a gun in Japan
Probably the restriction on number of gun shops per county would cause a dustup here, but I see no reason to not adopt the other requirements.
Thanks for posting them, TG.
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Japan, which has about 150 million people, has about 10 gun dead per year.
Requirements to own a gun in Japan
-
go to an all day class
-
pass a written test on guns
-
achieve 95% accuracy at the shooting range
-
mental health evaluation at hospital
-
background check with includes interviews with family and friends
-
every three years, repeat
-
each county can have a maximum of three gun shops
-
to get a new gun clip of ammunition, must turn in an empty one
-
when a gun owner dies, their guns much be turned in
@taiwan_girl said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
Japan, which has about 150 million people, has about 10 gun dead per year.
Requirements to own a gun in Japan
-
go to an all day class
-
pass a written test on guns
-
achieve 95% accuracy at the shooting range
-
mental health evaluation at hospital
-
background check with includes interviews with family and friends
-
every three years, repeat
-
each county can have a maximum of three gun shops
-
to get a new gun clip of ammunition, must turn in an empty one
-
when a gun owner dies, their guns much be turned in
Shall not be infringed. There are some you could probably do. Reasonable tests, a safety class...Maybe not an accuracy test. The mental health evaluation could get sticky, as could interviewing family members. Remember, shall not be infringed.
As for confiscation upon death, that's a no-go. I've seen family splits over who gets which ones of Dad's guns.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@taiwan_girl said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
Japan, which has about 150 million people, has about 10 gun dead per year.
Requirements to own a gun in Japan
-
go to an all day class
-
pass a written test on guns
-
achieve 95% accuracy at the shooting range
-
mental health evaluation at hospital
-
background check with includes interviews with family and friends
-
every three years, repeat
-
each county can have a maximum of three gun shops
-
to get a new gun clip of ammunition, must turn in an empty one
-
when a gun owner dies, their guns much be turned in
Shall not be infringed. There are some you could probably do. Reasonable tests, a safety class...Maybe not an accuracy test. The mental health evaluation could get sticky, as could interviewing family members. Remember, shall not be infringed.
As for confiscation upon death, that's a no-go. I've seen family splits over who gets which ones of Dad's guns.
@Jolly said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
@taiwan_girl said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
Japan, which has about 150 million people, has about 10 gun dead per year.
Requirements to own a gun in Japan
-
go to an all day class
-
pass a written test on guns
-
achieve 95% accuracy at the shooting range
-
mental health evaluation at hospital
-
background check with includes interviews with family and friends
-
every three years, repeat
-
each county can have a maximum of three gun shops
-
to get a new gun clip of ammunition, must turn in an empty one
-
when a gun owner dies, their guns much be turned in
Shall not be infringed. There are some you could probably do. Reasonable tests, a safety class...Maybe not an accuracy test. The mental health evaluation could get sticky, as could interviewing family members. Remember, shall not be infringed.
As for confiscation upon death, that's a no-go. I've seen family splits over who gets which ones of Dad's guns.
So, we get to give up our computer games, medication, our Sunday mornings taking the bloody kids to church, stop watching exciting movies, spend less time on the internet.....
And gun owners sacrifice what, exactly?
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@taiwan_girl said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
Japan, which has about 150 million people, has about 10 gun dead per year.
Requirements to own a gun in Japan
-
go to an all day class
-
pass a written test on guns
-
achieve 95% accuracy at the shooting range
-
mental health evaluation at hospital
-
background check with includes interviews with family and friends
-
every three years, repeat
-
each county can have a maximum of three gun shops
-
to get a new gun clip of ammunition, must turn in an empty one
-
when a gun owner dies, their guns much be turned in
Shall not be infringed. There are some you could probably do. Reasonable tests, a safety class...Maybe not an accuracy test. The mental health evaluation could get sticky, as could interviewing family members. Remember, shall not be infringed.
As for confiscation upon death, that's a no-go. I've seen family splits over who gets which ones of Dad's guns.
@Jolly said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
Shall not be infringed.
I have always had great respect for that phrase. There is something so impassioned and unyielding about it; you can almost see the unbending set of the Founders' faces as they wrote the words, their pens practically gouging the surface: The line in the sand, this far and no further. Shall not.
But times change. Conditions change. And laws change as necessary. We can no longer afford to worship the Second as we have been. To be so obdurate about the language which if left in place will facilitate the very obvious continuum leading to more and more killings, is senseless and irrational. We must continue to take the Constitution very seriously -- more seriously than any other issue in the country, because when it goes, we really are screwed -- but we must face facts.
There is no other way. It is possible to alter the Second with reasonable add-ons that do not infringe. It is past time for us to acknowledge that 2022 is not 1791.
Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka
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@Jolly said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
Shall not be infringed.
I have always had great respect for that phrase. There is something so impassioned and unyielding about it; you can almost see the unbending set of the Founders' faces as they wrote the words, their pens practically gouging the surface: The line in the sand, this far and no further. Shall not.
But times change. Conditions change. And laws change as necessary. We can no longer afford to worship the Second as we have been. To be so obdurate about the language which if left in place will facilitate the very obvious continuum leading to more and more killings, is senseless and irrational. We must continue to take the Constitution very seriously -- more seriously than any other issue in the country, because when it goes, we really are screwed -- but we must face facts.
There is no other way. It is possible to alter the Second with reasonable add-ons that do not infringe. It is past time for us to acknowledge that 2022 is not 1791.
@Catseye3 said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
@Jolly said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
Shall not be infringed.
I have always had great respect for that phrase. There is something so impassioned and unyielding about it; you can almost see the unbending set of the Founders' faces as they wrote the words: The line in the sand, this far and no further. Shall not.
But times change. And laws change as necessary. We can no longer afford to worship the Second as we have been. To be so obdurate about the language which if left in place will facilitate the very obvious continuum leading to more and more killings, is senseless and irrational. We must continue to take the Constitution very seriously -- more seriously than any other issue in the country, because when it goes, we really are screwed -- but we must face facts.
There is no other way. It is possible to alter the Second with reasonable add-ons that do not infringe. It is past time for us to acknowledge that 2022 is not 1791.
It's in the Constitution.
If you wish to alter it, there is a mechanism.
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@Catseye3 said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
@Jolly said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
Shall not be infringed.
I have always had great respect for that phrase. There is something so impassioned and unyielding about it; you can almost see the unbending set of the Founders' faces as they wrote the words: The line in the sand, this far and no further. Shall not.
But times change. And laws change as necessary. We can no longer afford to worship the Second as we have been. To be so obdurate about the language which if left in place will facilitate the very obvious continuum leading to more and more killings, is senseless and irrational. We must continue to take the Constitution very seriously -- more seriously than any other issue in the country, because when it goes, we really are screwed -- but we must face facts.
There is no other way. It is possible to alter the Second with reasonable add-ons that do not infringe. It is past time for us to acknowledge that 2022 is not 1791.
It's in the Constitution.
If you wish to alter it, there is a mechanism.
@Jolly said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
It's in the Constitution.
If you wish to alter it, there is a mechanism.For christ sake, isn't that what I've been saying???
And yeah, there is a mechanism, which I have the feeling you and yours will fight tooth and claw every step of the way. So spare me your disingenuity.
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No, Jolly echoes my sentiments. It says what it says. if you don't like it, there's a mechanism to change it if that is what 38 states want. But you simply cannot do it by fiat.
Difficult you say? Certainly. Intentionally so. That is the genius of the Constitution.
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No, Jolly echoes my sentiments. It says what it says. if you don't like it, there's a mechanism to change it if that is what 38 states want. But you simply cannot do it by fiat.
Difficult you say? Certainly. Intentionally so. That is the genius of the Constitution.
@Mik said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
It says what it says.
What, am I writing in Urdu??? Of course it can't be done by fiat, any more than for any other content of the Constitution. But we both know that the extremist pro-Second people will constitute an enormous obstacle to amending the Amendment. Everything is sweetness and light until specific suggestions are made such as TG's. Then all we hear is, "Well, there's problems with this, this, and this." Problems. Not sitting down and ironing out differences and coming to agreement, but right off the bat, problems.
The writing is on the wall.
Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka
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@Mik said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
It says what it says.
What, am I writing in Urdu??? Of course it can't be done by fiat, any more than for any other content of the Constitution. But we both know that the extremist pro-Second people will constitute an enormous obstacle to amending the Amendment. Everything is sweetness and light until specific suggestions are made such as TG's. Then all we hear is, "Well, there's problems with this, this, and this." Problems. Not sitting down and ironing out differences and coming to agreement, but right off the bat, problems.
The writing is on the wall.
@Catseye3 said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
But we both know that the extremist pro-Second people will constitute an enormous obstacle to amending the Amendment
How, exactly, will that happen?
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@Catseye3 said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
But we both know that the extremist pro-Second people will constitute an enormous obstacle to amending the Amendment
How, exactly, will that happen?
@George-K said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
How, exactly, will that happen?
Well, why isn't reform happening now?
Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka
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@George-K said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
How, exactly, will that happen?
Well, why isn't reform happening now?
@Catseye3 said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
@George-K said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
How, exactly, will that happen?
Well, why isn't reform happening now?
No, you mentioned "extremist pro-2A people constituting an obstacle." Are they in the majority of the population? Does the majority of legislators support them?
So, again, how does that happen?
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@Mik said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
It says what it says.
What, am I writing in Urdu??? Of course it can't be done by fiat, any more than for any other content of the Constitution. But we both know that the extremist pro-Second people will constitute an enormous obstacle to amending the Amendment. Everything is sweetness and light until specific suggestions are made such as TG's. Then all we hear is, "Well, there's problems with this, this, and this." Problems. Not sitting down and ironing out differences and coming to agreement, but right off the bat, problems.
The writing is on the wall.
@Catseye3 said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
@Mik said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
It says what it says.
What, am I writing in Urdu??? Of course it can't be done by fiat, any more than for any other content of the Constitution. But we both know that the extremist pro-Second people will constitute an enormous obstacle to amending the Amendment. Everything is sweetness and light until specific suggestions are made such as TG's. Then all we hear is, "Well, there's problems with this, this, and this." Problems. Not sitting down and ironing out differences and coming to agreement, but right off the bat, problems.
The writing is on the wall.
May I remind you, the NRA was talking about mental health and guns, back in the 1960's.
Didn't go anywhere, and it wasn't because of the gun lobby. Might want to ask yourself why...
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Looking for the why of younger mass shooters? So are the 'experts'.
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Looking for the why of younger mass shooters? So are the 'experts'.
@Mik said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
Looking for the why of younger mass shooters? So are the 'experts'.
You can buy a gun before you can buy alcohol.
Doesn't anybody else think this is a bit weird?
Yeah, yeah, I know, the genius of The Constitution. Maybe if Sam Adams had had more input.....
I was only joking
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@Catseye3 said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
@George-K said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
How, exactly, will that happen?
Well, why isn't reform happening now?
No, you mentioned "extremist pro-2A people constituting an obstacle." Are they in the majority of the population? Does the majority of legislators support them?
So, again, how does that happen?
@George-K said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
No, you mentioned "extremist pro-2A people constituting an obstacle." Are they in the majority of the population? Does the majority of legislators support them?
So, again, how does that happen?No, I won't be shoved into a corner where I don't want to go. By definition, extremists do not constitute the majority of the population. As for legislative support, who knows? Which position butters their bread? Are their constituencies urging action one way or the other? I don't know. The issue seemingly hasn't become noisy enough that they must address it.
The desire for reform of the Second is not in the air. Jeebus, the Kardashians have a wardrobe malfunction and it's all you hear about.
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@Mik said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
It says what it says.
What, am I writing in Urdu??? Of course it can't be done by fiat, any more than for any other content of the Constitution. But we both know that the extremist pro-Second people will constitute an enormous obstacle to amending the Amendment. Everything is sweetness and light until specific suggestions are made such as TG's. Then all we hear is, "Well, there's problems with this, this, and this." Problems. Not sitting down and ironing out differences and coming to agreement, but right off the bat, problems.
The writing is on the wall.
@Catseye3 said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
@Mik said in Mass shooting at Highland Park 4th parade:
It says what it says.
What, am I writing in Urdu??? Of course it can't be done by fiat, any more than for any other content of the Constitution. But we both know that the extremist pro-Second people will constitute an enormous obstacle to amending the Amendment. Everything is sweetness and light until specific suggestions are made such as TG's. Then all we hear is, "Well, there's problems with this, this, and this." Problems. Not sitting down and ironing out differences and coming to agreement, but right off the bat, problems.
The writing is on the wall.
The reason for that is that any seriously restrictive measure that is taken only affects law abiding citizens. It doesn't touch criminals nor address the illegal gun market.
There is an argument to be made for mental health exclusions, red flag situations and age limits, and the recent legislation passed includes support for both those things.
But yeah, there are problems. In red flag scenarios the problem is for law enforcement. What cop wants to be the one to knock on the door to take away and imbalanced person's firearms? In many cases it will be peaceful, but not all of them. There will be cop and citizen deaths involved.
But... the steps taken, if implemented by the states, should have prevented the Highland Park shooter from getting weapons. It's a good step.
