State of the art progressive thought re: Trump refusing to leave office
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@Larry said in State of the art progressive thought re: Trump refusing to leave office:
Jon, you seem to be worried that Trump will do what Hillary and the Democrat party did last time....
No no no. I don't care about demonstrations and op-eds. I'm worried about a constitutional crisis, a la 1876 but worse.
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@Larry said in State of the art progressive thought re: Trump refusing to leave office:
Jon, you've already tossed the "popular vote" rock. We don't elect by popular vote. Who's the whining little bitches with that one? The Democrat party is pushing vote by mail, but not talking much about the part they call "vote harvesting". That's where party operatives manipulate the votes, bags full of sorted ballots suddenly get lost.. it's nothing more than a scheme to steal elections - something democrats are famous for. So the Right has plenty of reason - historically proven reason - to be cautious about the democrats stealing the election. This question of yours about Trump is just you repeating a conspiracy theory being promoted by the Democrat party to divert attention from their actual, real time attempt to steal the election.
Translation: "Yes we would totally back him if he declared a loss illegitimate, and we would totally back any swing state governor who puts up a competing set of electors or invalidated whole classes of votes"
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You're being intellectually dishonest, Jon.
If you will remember, Hillary and the Democrat party posed this exact same question during the debates before the last election. They straight up asked him if he lost would he accept the results. Then Hillary lost, and before you could say boo she was out refusing to accept the results, and the democrats began their attempted coup.
Now the question is being asked again, and I refuse to believe that you're not intelligent enough to see it for what it is.
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It’s always something.
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@jon-nyc said in State of the art progressive thought re: Trump refusing to leave office:
Which of my steps do you think wouldn’t happen? Specifically.
Again assuming Trump doesn’t just plain old win on election night.
Horace already put it quite succinctly.
"Trump is liable to call a loss "illegitimate". Lots of losers of elections have done so, that is an irrelevancy.
Many of Trump's base would back him on that claim, again irrelevant and commonplace.
I think there is no plausible path forward for Trump to use violence to stay in office.
and no, I will not attempt to establish that it is "impossible". "Impossible" is not necessary for something to not be a "legitimate concern", especially when the "legitimate concern" is fun to say out loud to drive home the point that orange man bad."
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@jon-nyc said in State of the art progressive thought re: Trump refusing to leave office:
@Horace said in State of the art progressive thought re: Trump refusing to leave office:
Trump is liable to call a loss "illegitimate". Lots of losers of elections have done so, that is an irrelevancy.
Many of Trump's base would back him on that claim, again irrelevant and commonplace.
I think there is no plausible path forward for Trump to use violence to stay in office.
and no, I will not attempt to establish that it is "impossible". "Impossible" is not necessary for something to not be a "legitimate concern", especially when the "legitimate concern" is fun to say out loud to drive home the point that orange man bad.
You conceded my first two concerns then skipped the rest, ending on a nice straw man. Perhaps it wasn't intentional, want to try again?
What straw man? Was it a straw man when I rephrased "couldn't happen" as "impossible"? Serious question, I am fascinated by your ability to see straw men where they do not exist.
Your other points were about Trump using violence to stay in office, I claimed that they were implausible. Your accusation that I skipped them is convenient but inaccurate.
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2016:
"Mr. Trump, if you lose the election will you accept the results?"
Trump: "Yes, of course. And if you lose, will you accept the results?"
Hillary:"hahahahaHillary loses:
Hillary "I won the popular vote. I refuse to accept the results!"
Democrat party: "We refuse to accept the results!"
Democrat part: launches a coup, spends 3 years and tens of millions of dollars engaging in sedition.
Hilkary:" I won! I won!"
Democrat party: "let's get rid of the electoral college!"
Democrat party : "destroy Kavanaugh! Destroy everyone Trump nominates! Destroy! Destroy!!!"
Hillary "it's Corey's fault I lost. It's everyone's fault I lost. It's your fault I lost. It's... "2020:
Democrat party: "if Trump loses the election, will he accept the results?"Bahahahahaaaa
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I wonder if jon would consider it a "legitimate concern" that people in the white house might actively subvert the intentions of the president going forward, and whether that would be a "constitutional crisis". I wonder if he considers it a "legitimate concern" that police could get defunded because racism. The first thing has already happened and been accepted as a good thing as long as the president is sufficiently orange and bad. The second thing is being openly discussed by mainstream progressive voices.
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What if Trump loses but is able to provide valid proof massive fraud?
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@Klaus said in State of the art progressive thought re: Trump refusing to leave office:
What are you talking about, Larry? As far as I remember, Hillary Clinton called Trump to acknowledge that he won during the night of the election.
Oh yes, she made the standard "I concede" call. Then she got drunk and fell asleep, woke up the next day, scratched her fat ass, farted, and launched a 3 year "I didn't really lose" campaign. She even wrote a book about how it was everyone else's fault not hers, and how she won the popular vote so she's really the rightful winner. She called the book "What Happened".
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What constitutes "valid proof of massive fraud"? What constitutes fraud and what constitutes massive fraud, and how long would it take to establish it or accept that there's no case? The country cannot be without a president while 200 lawyers diddle around with this, and such an investigation obviously would not commence until after the election.
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Count me in as another one who thinks that Trump refusing to accept an election result is a legitimate concern.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@Larry said in State of the art progressive thought re: Trump refusing to leave office:
@Klaus said in State of the art progressive thought re: Trump refusing to leave office:
What are you talking about, Larry? As far as I remember, Hillary Clinton called Trump to acknowledge that he won during the night of the election.
Oh yes, she made the standard "I concede" call. Then she got drunk and fell asleep, woke up the next day, scratched her fat ass, farted, and launched a 3 year "I didn't really lose" campaign. She even wrote a book about how it was everyone else's fault not hers, and how she won the popular vote so she's really the rightful winner. She called the book "What Happened".
Did she make any serious attempts to overthrow Trump? Bitching about the electoral college vs popular vote is one thing. But she never said that Trump didn't win the electoral college.
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@Klaus said in State of the art progressive thought re: Trump refusing to leave office:
@Larry said in State of the art progressive thought re: Trump refusing to leave office:
@Klaus said in State of the art progressive thought re: Trump refusing to leave office:
What are you talking about, Larry? As far as I remember, Hillary Clinton called Trump to acknowledge that he won during the night of the election.
Oh yes, she made the standard "I concede" call. Then she got drunk and fell asleep, woke up the next day, scratched her fat ass, farted, and launched a 3 year "I didn't really lose" campaign. She even wrote a book about how it was everyone else's fault not hers, and how she won the popular vote so she's really the rightful winner. She called the book "What Happened".
Did she make any serious attempts to overthrow Trump? Bitching about the electoral college vs popular vote is one thing. But she never said that Trump didn't win the electoral college.
Of course she didn't deny he won the electoral college. She simply joined in with the rest of the democrats in pushing for an end to the electoral college, and helped promote "The Resistance", which launched the coup attempt. So yes, she was up to her eyeballs in the attempt to overthrow Trump.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in State of the art progressive thought re: Trump refusing to leave office:
Count me in as another one who thinks that Trump refusing to accept an election result is a legitimate concern.
Then you'd fall for anything.
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I think the question is academic - I can't really see Trump losing the election, but based on the last 5 months I guess a lot of weird shit could happen between now and November
