Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.
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wrote on 13 May 2022, 12:25 last edited by
Dmitry Peskov, the Kremlin's spokesperson, said on Thursday that Finland joining was definitely a threat to Russia, The Guardian reported.
And Russia's foreign ministry said in a Thursday statement that "Russia will be forced to take retaliatory steps, both of a military-technical and other nature, in order to stop the threats to its national security arising in this regard."
Russia's comments come after Finland's president and prime minister said in a joint statement on Thursday that they want their country to join NATO, and that they want the application to be made as soon as possible.
Sweden is also expected to apply for membership imminently.
Rising public and political support for joining NATO in both countries has been prompted by Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
Russia used the possibility that NATO could expand as a justification for invading Ukraine in the first place.
Thursday's threats mirror those that Russia has been making over the past few weeks, as Sweden and Finland move closer to formally applying.
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wrote on 13 May 2022, 13:00 last edited by
It concerns me that he keeps digging himself in deeper, piling one mistake on top of another.
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wrote on 13 May 2022, 13:18 last edited by
Actually, I think it was @Copper that made a valid point.
The presence of nuclear weapons, or at least the threat of them, in Cuba came close to triggering WWIII.
Having (almost) all of Russia's western border be NATO-aligned countries can be seen as a threat.
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Actually, I think it was @Copper that made a valid point.
The presence of nuclear weapons, or at least the threat of them, in Cuba came close to triggering WWIII.
Having (almost) all of Russia's western border be NATO-aligned countries can be seen as a threat.
wrote on 13 May 2022, 13:47 last edited by@George-K said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
Actually, I think it was @Copper that made a valid point.
The presence of nuclear weapons, or at least the threat of them, in Cuba came close to triggering WWIII.
Having (almost) all of Russia's western border be NATO-aligned countries can be seen as a threat.
As opposed to what, though? The only way to prevent WWIII is to ignore Russia, let it do what it wants? Everyone acts as if war crimes aren't being acted out regularly? No one defends themselves against a country invading its neighbors?
I mean really, what should Finland actually do?
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@George-K said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
Actually, I think it was @Copper that made a valid point.
The presence of nuclear weapons, or at least the threat of them, in Cuba came close to triggering WWIII.
Having (almost) all of Russia's western border be NATO-aligned countries can be seen as a threat.
As opposed to what, though? The only way to prevent WWIII is to ignore Russia, let it do what it wants? Everyone acts as if war crimes aren't being acted out regularly? No one defends themselves against a country invading its neighbors?
I mean really, what should Finland actually do?
wrote on 13 May 2022, 14:00 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
As opposed to what, though? The only way to prevent WWIII is to ignore Russia, let it do what it wants? Everyone acts as if war crimes aren't being acted out regularly? No one defends themselves against a country invading its neighbors?
I mean really, what should Finland actually do?
Please don't think that I'm opposed to Finland's joining NATO. Given the unprovoked hostilities in Ukraine, it's totally the right thing to do. Also, considering the history of Finland and the USSR, it's not surprising that they want to join. I would do the same thing. I expect Sweden to do so as well.
But, here's an interesting question.
The finalization of membership will not take place overnight. More likely, it won't be until the end of the year. So, if Vlad does something stupid, and Finland's not yet a member, what's NATO to do? Stand by because Finland is not one of them yet? If NATO does do something, what's Zelenski going to think, "Hey, they're not members and you come to their aid? What about me, bro?"
I suppose NATO could justify it by saying, "Well, the process has started, and we're committed, so..."
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
As opposed to what, though? The only way to prevent WWIII is to ignore Russia, let it do what it wants? Everyone acts as if war crimes aren't being acted out regularly? No one defends themselves against a country invading its neighbors?
I mean really, what should Finland actually do?
Please don't think that I'm opposed to Finland's joining NATO. Given the unprovoked hostilities in Ukraine, it's totally the right thing to do. Also, considering the history of Finland and the USSR, it's not surprising that they want to join. I would do the same thing. I expect Sweden to do so as well.
But, here's an interesting question.
The finalization of membership will not take place overnight. More likely, it won't be until the end of the year. So, if Vlad does something stupid, and Finland's not yet a member, what's NATO to do? Stand by because Finland is not one of them yet? If NATO does do something, what's Zelenski going to think, "Hey, they're not members and you come to their aid? What about me, bro?"
I suppose NATO could justify it by saying, "Well, the process has started, and we're committed, so..."
wrote on 13 May 2022, 14:03 last edited by@George-K said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
As opposed to what, though? The only way to prevent WWIII is to ignore Russia, let it do what it wants? Everyone acts as if war crimes aren't being acted out regularly? No one defends themselves against a country invading its neighbors?
I mean really, what should Finland actually do?
Please don't think that I'm opposed to Finland's joining NATO. Given the unprovoked hostilities in Ukraine, it's totally the right thing to do. Also, considering the history of Finland and the USSR, it's not surprising that they want to join. I would do the same thing. I expect Sweden to do so as well.
But, here's an interesting question.
The finalization of membership will not take place overnight. More likely, it won't be until the end of the year. So, if Vlad does something stupid, and Finland's not yet a member, what's NATO to do? Stand by because Finland is not one of them yet? If NATO does do something, what's Zelenski going to think, "Hey, they're not members and you come to their aid? What about me, bro?"
I suppose NATO could justify it by saying, "Well, the process has started, and we're committed, so..."
The UK already forced our hand. They're drafting shit up right now that ensures Britain will come to the aid of Finland while membership is being finalized.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
As opposed to what, though? The only way to prevent WWIII is to ignore Russia, let it do what it wants? Everyone acts as if war crimes aren't being acted out regularly? No one defends themselves against a country invading its neighbors?
I mean really, what should Finland actually do?
Please don't think that I'm opposed to Finland's joining NATO. Given the unprovoked hostilities in Ukraine, it's totally the right thing to do. Also, considering the history of Finland and the USSR, it's not surprising that they want to join. I would do the same thing. I expect Sweden to do so as well.
But, here's an interesting question.
The finalization of membership will not take place overnight. More likely, it won't be until the end of the year. So, if Vlad does something stupid, and Finland's not yet a member, what's NATO to do? Stand by because Finland is not one of them yet? If NATO does do something, what's Zelenski going to think, "Hey, they're not members and you come to their aid? What about me, bro?"
I suppose NATO could justify it by saying, "Well, the process has started, and we're committed, so..."
wrote on 13 May 2022, 14:08 last edited by RenaudaThat is precisely why BoJo signed the those two mutual assistance pacts with Finland and Sweden this past week. If Putin were to make a move against Finland now that its intentions to join NATO are public and formal application is imminent, it would open the door to direct involvement against a NATO. Smart move on the part of NATO - you can be assured the UK did not perform this unilaterally without consultation -since there is a real chance Hungary and, as of today, Turkey, could be spoilers in Finland and Sweden’s application.
Any move now against Finland puts Moscow in check.
Turkey not in favour of Sweden and Finland:
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wrote on 14 May 2022, 14:30 last edited by
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wrote on 14 May 2022, 14:43 last edited by
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wrote on 14 May 2022, 14:46 last edited by
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wrote on 14 May 2022, 14:47 last edited by
@George-K said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
...every independent nation maximizes its security
Not really. Sometimes, certain political parties in independent democratic nations gather votes by intentionally minimizing the nation's security.
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wrote on 14 May 2022, 15:31 last edited by
That was decently played on Finland's part.
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wrote on 15 May 2022, 17:03 last edited by
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wrote on 15 May 2022, 19:07 last edited by Renauda
Turkey has now stated it will not block either Finland or Sweden from becoming NATO members.
Putin wanted less NATO as a war aim and is now getting even more NATO than he ever imagined.
All I can say is, sad Christmas for Putin.
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Turkey has now stated it will not block either Finland or Sweden from becoming NATO members.
Putin wanted less NATO as a war aim and is now getting even more NATO than he ever imagined.
All I can say is, sad Christmas for Putin.
wrote on 15 May 2022, 19:42 last edited by@Renauda said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
Turkey has now stated it will not block either Finland or Sweden from becoming NATO members.
Somewhere I read that one country can block other nations from joining. This is a good thing.
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wrote on 16 May 2022, 13:45 last edited by
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wrote on 16 May 2022, 13:53 last edited by
This just has to be the end of Putin. He has set his nation back decades in every imaginable way.
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This just has to be the end of Putin. He has set his nation back decades in every imaginable way.
wrote on 16 May 2022, 14:29 last edited by@Mik and also Renauda:
It is amazing, how people so often fail to recognize the catalytic consequences of their actions. "So-and-so is doing X, so I will thwart him by doing Y," not considering that so-and-so might change as a result of my Y.
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Turkey has now stated it will not block either Finland or Sweden from becoming NATO members.
Putin wanted less NATO as a war aim and is now getting even more NATO than he ever imagined.
All I can say is, sad Christmas for Putin.
wrote on 16 May 2022, 14:38 last edited by@Renauda said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
Turkey has now stated it will not block either Finland or Sweden from becoming NATO members.
Putin wanted less NATO as a war aim and is now getting even more NATO than he ever imagined.
All I can say is, sad Christmas for Putin.
Wonder what the Turks got in return?
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@Mik and also Renauda:
It is amazing, how people so often fail to recognize the catalytic consequences of their actions. "So-and-so is doing X, so I will thwart him by doing Y," not considering that so-and-so might change as a result of my Y.
wrote on 16 May 2022, 15:26 last edited by RenaudaMy spouse has a theory that all this would have been gamed out beforehand and that Putin will now proceed to launch a internal blood purge to rid the country of imagined enemies of the people reminiscent of Stalin.
It is plausible and he may attempt such at the top but I doubt that it would be without concerted and determined opposition from within unlike the 1930’s.