Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.
-
Was speaking to an old friend who lives in Helsinki yesterday. What he told me is pretty much what is in the article. He also told me is that Russian military aircraft flying along Finnish airspace have been daily the three weeks or so and there have at least a half dozen direct violations into Finnish airspace in the last two weeks. His opinion was that Putin’s attempts to intimidate Finland will strengthen support for joining NATO. He is not convinced however, that the Swedes are as interested in joining NATO as is Finland.
-
-
I bet this made Putin roll over in bed:
-
Finland must make bid to join NATO 'without delay,' its leaders say
Finland’s leaders announced Thursday their intention for the country to join NATO “without delay,” a move that would bolster the Western military alliance that was founded to counter the power of the Kremlin.
The Nordic nation, which shares an 810-mile border with Russia, is expected to be given rapid accession to join the alliance and neighboring Sweden looks set to follow with its own bid in the coming days.
Moscow said Finland’s move was a threat that would “not make our continent more stable and secure” as Russian President Vladimir Putin confronted the prospect of his war in Ukraine resulting in the very opposite of the goals it was launched to achieve.
Finnish President Sauli Niinistö and Prime Minister Sanna Marin announced their support for the decision in a joint statement early Thursday.
“NATO membership would strengthen Finland’s security. As a member of NATO, Finland would strengthen the entire defense alliance,” Niinistö and Marin said.
“Finland must apply for NATO membership without delay. We hope that the national steps still needed to make this decision will be taken rapidly within the next few days.”
-
@George-K said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
Because threatening other nations is exactly what UN ambassadors should do.
these territories will become a possible target for the Russian military"
I'm sure if we explain that this would be racist, they will back off.
-
Dmitry Peskov, the Kremlin's spokesperson, said on Thursday that Finland joining was definitely a threat to Russia, The Guardian reported.
And Russia's foreign ministry said in a Thursday statement that "Russia will be forced to take retaliatory steps, both of a military-technical and other nature, in order to stop the threats to its national security arising in this regard."
Russia's comments come after Finland's president and prime minister said in a joint statement on Thursday that they want their country to join NATO, and that they want the application to be made as soon as possible.
Sweden is also expected to apply for membership imminently.
Rising public and political support for joining NATO in both countries has been prompted by Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
Russia used the possibility that NATO could expand as a justification for invading Ukraine in the first place.
Thursday's threats mirror those that Russia has been making over the past few weeks, as Sweden and Finland move closer to formally applying.
-
Actually, I think it was @Copper that made a valid point.
The presence of nuclear weapons, or at least the threat of them, in Cuba came close to triggering WWIII.
Having (almost) all of Russia's western border be NATO-aligned countries can be seen as a threat.
-
Actually, I think it was @Copper that made a valid point.
The presence of nuclear weapons, or at least the threat of them, in Cuba came close to triggering WWIII.
Having (almost) all of Russia's western border be NATO-aligned countries can be seen as a threat.
@George-K said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
Actually, I think it was @Copper that made a valid point.
The presence of nuclear weapons, or at least the threat of them, in Cuba came close to triggering WWIII.
Having (almost) all of Russia's western border be NATO-aligned countries can be seen as a threat.
As opposed to what, though? The only way to prevent WWIII is to ignore Russia, let it do what it wants? Everyone acts as if war crimes aren't being acted out regularly? No one defends themselves against a country invading its neighbors?
I mean really, what should Finland actually do?
-
@George-K said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
Actually, I think it was @Copper that made a valid point.
The presence of nuclear weapons, or at least the threat of them, in Cuba came close to triggering WWIII.
Having (almost) all of Russia's western border be NATO-aligned countries can be seen as a threat.
As opposed to what, though? The only way to prevent WWIII is to ignore Russia, let it do what it wants? Everyone acts as if war crimes aren't being acted out regularly? No one defends themselves against a country invading its neighbors?
I mean really, what should Finland actually do?
@Aqua-Letifer said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
As opposed to what, though? The only way to prevent WWIII is to ignore Russia, let it do what it wants? Everyone acts as if war crimes aren't being acted out regularly? No one defends themselves against a country invading its neighbors?
I mean really, what should Finland actually do?
Please don't think that I'm opposed to Finland's joining NATO. Given the unprovoked hostilities in Ukraine, it's totally the right thing to do. Also, considering the history of Finland and the USSR, it's not surprising that they want to join. I would do the same thing. I expect Sweden to do so as well.
But, here's an interesting question.
The finalization of membership will not take place overnight. More likely, it won't be until the end of the year. So, if Vlad does something stupid, and Finland's not yet a member, what's NATO to do? Stand by because Finland is not one of them yet? If NATO does do something, what's Zelenski going to think, "Hey, they're not members and you come to their aid? What about me, bro?"
I suppose NATO could justify it by saying, "Well, the process has started, and we're committed, so..."
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
-
@Aqua-Letifer said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
As opposed to what, though? The only way to prevent WWIII is to ignore Russia, let it do what it wants? Everyone acts as if war crimes aren't being acted out regularly? No one defends themselves against a country invading its neighbors?
I mean really, what should Finland actually do?
Please don't think that I'm opposed to Finland's joining NATO. Given the unprovoked hostilities in Ukraine, it's totally the right thing to do. Also, considering the history of Finland and the USSR, it's not surprising that they want to join. I would do the same thing. I expect Sweden to do so as well.
But, here's an interesting question.
The finalization of membership will not take place overnight. More likely, it won't be until the end of the year. So, if Vlad does something stupid, and Finland's not yet a member, what's NATO to do? Stand by because Finland is not one of them yet? If NATO does do something, what's Zelenski going to think, "Hey, they're not members and you come to their aid? What about me, bro?"
I suppose NATO could justify it by saying, "Well, the process has started, and we're committed, so..."
@George-K said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
As opposed to what, though? The only way to prevent WWIII is to ignore Russia, let it do what it wants? Everyone acts as if war crimes aren't being acted out regularly? No one defends themselves against a country invading its neighbors?
I mean really, what should Finland actually do?
Please don't think that I'm opposed to Finland's joining NATO. Given the unprovoked hostilities in Ukraine, it's totally the right thing to do. Also, considering the history of Finland and the USSR, it's not surprising that they want to join. I would do the same thing. I expect Sweden to do so as well.
But, here's an interesting question.
The finalization of membership will not take place overnight. More likely, it won't be until the end of the year. So, if Vlad does something stupid, and Finland's not yet a member, what's NATO to do? Stand by because Finland is not one of them yet? If NATO does do something, what's Zelenski going to think, "Hey, they're not members and you come to their aid? What about me, bro?"
I suppose NATO could justify it by saying, "Well, the process has started, and we're committed, so..."
The UK already forced our hand. They're drafting shit up right now that ensures Britain will come to the aid of Finland while membership is being finalized.
-
@Aqua-Letifer said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
As opposed to what, though? The only way to prevent WWIII is to ignore Russia, let it do what it wants? Everyone acts as if war crimes aren't being acted out regularly? No one defends themselves against a country invading its neighbors?
I mean really, what should Finland actually do?
Please don't think that I'm opposed to Finland's joining NATO. Given the unprovoked hostilities in Ukraine, it's totally the right thing to do. Also, considering the history of Finland and the USSR, it's not surprising that they want to join. I would do the same thing. I expect Sweden to do so as well.
But, here's an interesting question.
The finalization of membership will not take place overnight. More likely, it won't be until the end of the year. So, if Vlad does something stupid, and Finland's not yet a member, what's NATO to do? Stand by because Finland is not one of them yet? If NATO does do something, what's Zelenski going to think, "Hey, they're not members and you come to their aid? What about me, bro?"
I suppose NATO could justify it by saying, "Well, the process has started, and we're committed, so..."
That is precisely why BoJo signed the those two mutual assistance pacts with Finland and Sweden this past week. If Putin were to make a move against Finland now that its intentions to join NATO are public and formal application is imminent, it would open the door to direct involvement against a NATO. Smart move on the part of NATO - you can be assured the UK did not perform this unilaterally without consultation -since there is a real chance Hungary and, as of today, Turkey, could be spoilers in Finland and Sweden’s application.
Any move now against Finland puts Moscow in check.
Turkey not in favour of Sweden and Finland:
-
@George-K said in Looks like Finland will apply for NATO membership.:
...every independent nation maximizes its security
Not really. Sometimes, certain political parties in independent democratic nations gather votes by intentionally minimizing the nation's security.
