Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle

[Aqua Letifer]

@Axtremus said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

@Aqua-Letifer said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

Biking to buy groceries is fun.

Say, do you mount the grocery basket in front or at the back of your bike? Or both, with two baskets?

Dunno if you're serious, but in case you are: I've four. Two panniers in the front, two in the back.

I always fill up the rear ones first, and only use the two in the front if I have to. Front panniers much more radically change the feeling of steering, so I avoid doing that if I can.

[Aqua Letifer]

@LuFins-Dad said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

@Aqua-Letifer said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

@LuFins-Dad said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

@taiwan_girl said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

I think we often look at these directions with the eyes of current technology. For example, in 1975, the average fuel economy for all vehicles in the US was about 12-13 miles in a gallon.

If you told someone then that by 1990, the government would have said that the overall fuel economy would be have to more than double that (for example, up to 26 miles in a gallon), I am sure alot of people would have said "no way!!". Vehicles reached that, were safer, more comfortable, etc.

I dont see any reason why the requirements suggested cannot be met, and still keep a safe comfortable vehicle.

The CAFE standards in 2007 called for a 30% improvement over 15 years. They are now calling for a 40% improvement in 4 years.

That's how it works. It gets easier over time.

And can we stop pretending these little 4 cylinder engines really perform as well as a 6 or 8? They don’t.

Not everyone should look to long-haul truckers or their Bullitt DVD to determine their vehicle performance needs.

If you take the value of somebody else’s opinion about my vehicle needs and add $4,53, you could buy a gallon of gas.

I thought we were talking about a national policy, not what you personally need?

[Jolly]

A turbo four generally does not last and today's engines are very hard for a mechanic to rebuild. So, you tell your customer he has to buy a crate motor from the manufacturer for five or six grand, and it will cost $1200 to drop it in the car.

Yep, that's saving energy.

[Jolly]

@Aqua-Letifer said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

@LuFins-Dad said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

@taiwan_girl said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

I think we often look at these directions with the eyes of current technology. For example, in 1975, the average fuel economy for all vehicles in the US was about 12-13 miles in a gallon.

If you told someone then that by 1990, the government would have said that the overall fuel economy would be have to more than double that (for example, up to 26 miles in a gallon), I am sure alot of people would have said "no way!!". Vehicles reached that, were safer, more comfortable, etc.

I dont see any reason why the requirements suggested cannot be met, and still keep a safe comfortable vehicle.

The CAFE standards in 2007 called for a 30% improvement over 15 years. They are now calling for a 40% improvement in 4 years.

That's how it works. It gets easier over time.

And can we stop pretending these little 4 cylinder engines really perform as well as a 6 or 8? They don’t.

Not everyone should look to long-haul truckers or their Bullitt DVD to determine their vehicle performance needs.

Lots of pickups on the rural route. People out here use them for a lot of things...Hauling building material, firewood, towing trailers of one kind or another.

I know the mpg standard is to be averaged over a manufacturer's fleet, but these new standards will kill the pickup.

[Mik]

The devil is in the details. In this case, the percentage of electric vehicles in each portfolio will be how they get there.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Mik said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

The devil is in the details. In this case, the percentage of electric vehicles in each portfolio will be how they get there.

Yep.

[Jolly]

The market is much more efficient than the clumsy hand of government.

[Axtremus]

@Aqua-Letifer said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

Dunno if you're serious, but in case you are: I've four. Two panniers in the front, two in the back.

I always fill up the rear ones first, and only use the two in the front if I have to. Front panniers much more radically change the feeling of steering, so I avoid doing that if I can.

Nice! It’s not something I think regularly about, and I had to Google pictures of “bicycle panniers” to get a sense of what you’re talking about. But I appreciate your answer and the opportunity to learn something new from this exchange. Thanks!

[taiwan_girl]

Easiest way to increase your gas mileage and save money is to decrease speed. Obviously, if you are just driving around the town, different methods are required.

"Speed Kills MPG

Unfortunately, it's true. Your car's gas mileage decreases once it gets past its optimal speed. For most cars, this is around 55-60 mph. This means that every time you go over this speed, you're essentially wasting gas and money - and creating unnecessary greenhouse gases.

You'd be surprised to learn that a slight decrease in your highway driving speed can significantly reduce your gas consumption, while only adding a few minutes to your travel time.
How much?

According to studies backed by the department of energy, the average car will be at its advertised MPG at 55 mph. But as the speed increases:

  - 3% less efficient at 60 mph
  - 8% less efficient at 65 mph
  - 17% less efficient at 70 mph
  - 23% less efficient at 75 mph
  - 28% less efficient at 80 mph


[Mik]

I don't believe that is true. My car gets 22 around town and 27.2 on the highway. Where I typically drive 80 MPH. I do not believe I would get over 30 MPH if I drove 55. It also depends on transmission - how the power gets transferred to the wheels.

[George K]

I looked at my last fill-up.

During this tank, I drove up to visit D2 near Milwaukee. About a 200 mile round-trip, mostly on interstates at 75mph-plus.

The remainder of my driving was around town.

I drove 353 miles on that tank.

Here's my gas receipt.

About 25.8 mpg.

[Copper]

@taiwan_girl said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

"Speed Kills MPG

Unfortunately, it's true.

Your car's gas mileage decreases once it gets past its optimal speed. For most cars, this is around 55-60 mph. This means that every time you go over this speed, you're essentially wasting gas and money - and creating unnecessary greenhouse gases.

You'd be surprised to learn that a slight decrease in your highway driving speed can significantly reduce your gas consumption, while only adding a few minutes to your travel time.

Unfortunately, I doubt it.

its optimal speed

Optimal for what? I'm not driving my car because I want to save fuel, I'm driving it because I want to go from point A to point B. I optimize my trip by arriving sooner.

significantly reduce

Significant for whom? A few ounces of fuel are not significant, at least not for me.

Easiest way to increase your gas mileage and save money is to decrease speed.

Not if you are in Northern Virginia and there are a hundred people bumper-to-bumper behind you. The best way to save fuel and lower emissions is to go as fast as you can in order to maximize the number of people who make it through the red light. If you go slow and a hundred more people miss the green light then you are all sitting there burning fossil fuel, waiting. And you waste all the momentum you had built when you have to brake to stop.

Slow speed is probably the reason for most road rage, forget fuel economy, slow speed kills.

[taiwan_girl]

@Mik said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

I don't believe that is true. My car gets 22 around town and 27.2 on the highway. Where I typically drive 80 MPH. I do not believe I would get over 30 MPH if I drove 55. It also depends on transmission - how the power gets transferred to the wheels.

If I remember, driving around town is always less for a gas car, because of the power required to start the car (and weight of the car) going from a stop.

I think the graph shown is true if you are going a steady speed.

[taiwan_girl]

@Copper Here is an article that tries to incorporate the "time function" into the equation.

(https://www.wired.com/story/is-there-an-optimal-driving-speed-that-saves-gas-and-money/)

[Jolly]

@taiwan_girl said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

Easiest way to increase your gas mileage and save money is to decrease speed. Obviously, if you are just driving around the town, different methods are required.

"Speed Kills MPG

Unfortunately, it's true. Your car's gas mileage decreases once it gets past its optimal speed. For most cars, this is around 55-60 mph. This means that every time you go over this speed, you're essentially wasting gas and money - and creating unnecessary greenhouse gases.

You'd be surprised to learn that a slight decrease in your highway driving speed can significantly reduce your gas consumption, while only adding a few minutes to your travel time.
How much?

According to studies backed by the department of energy, the average car will be at its advertised MPG at 55 mph. But as the speed increases:

  - 3% less efficient at 60 mph
  - 8% less efficient at 65 mph
  - 17% less efficient at 70 mph
  - 23% less efficient at 75 mph
  - 28% less efficient at 80 mph


We tried that...

Link to video

[Horace]

Please don’t tell woke people it is virtuous to drive 55 in school zones.

[Mik]

@Jolly Love that song.

[Larry]

@taiwan_girl said in Killing Off the Fossil Fuel Vehicle:

I think we often look at these directions with the eyes of current technology. For example, in 1975, the average fuel economy for all vehicles in the US was about 12-13 miles in a gallon.

If you told someone then that by 1990, the government would have said that the overall fuel economy would be have to more than double that (for example, up to 26 miles in a gallon), I am sure alot of people would have said "no way!!". Vehicles reached that, were safer, more comfortable, etc.

I dont see any reason why the requirements suggested cannot be met, and still keep a safe comfortable vehicle.

In 1975, the average length of an American built car was 20 feet, and around 2 and a half tons. Two other thi us were happening : 1. Government pencil pushers, people who didn't know jack shit about cars but were armed with a lot if "data" and an invincinble "i know everything" ignorance were slap in the middle of inflicting car makers with smog regulations that made american cars gas guzzling, powerless pieces of crap. 2. THE FREE MARKET. CAPITALISM. The japanese had been selling small, gas efficient little cracker boxes for a few years, cars that got great gas mileage but were a pile of junk in a few years.

But with no forcing from government, the Japanese, while the government pencil pushers armed with their "data" and invincible ignorance were busy destroying e American car industry, were freely and without any government force, examining the weaknesses of their cars, and began improving them. In just a few short years their cars went from tin cans to quality products. Consumers flocked to their dealerships. American car makers saw it, and began competing with them. The result was that gas mileage improved dramatically cars got smaller, and the ONLY thing the government pencil pushers accomplished with their "data driven" bull shit was to make it harder on all carmakers to make better cars.

The next bright idea the pencil pushing "I don't know a thing about cars but I, armed with data" types had was the exact same one being argued now - reduce speed to 55 and cars get better mileage on e anybody else because..... DATA..... so for years we were forced to go 55 down the interstate because well... DATA..... they finally dropped the 55 mph limit - not because it worked, but because it was an absolute, utter failure. "Data" met "real world" and they were finally forced to admit that all it had done was inconvenience people. It didnt save a bit of gas, it didnt reduce traffic accidents - in fact traffic accidents increased - and it wore cars out faster.

But here we are again, a new generation of "data" driven "government regulation is good" types want to try it all again, totally convinced the gains made by car makers are all due to government regulations. Well it wasn't. The gains made were 100% driven by free market competition, done IN SPITE OF all that you seem to believe.

Having already lived through the bull shit once, all I can do is laugh at it.

[Jolly]

The turbo four engine in the base Chevrolet truck gets a very small improvement in mpg over the V8 and the V8 will tow three or four thousand more pounds. With direct fuel injection and turbocharging, it carbons up faster than the V8. Is is very sensitive to lack of maintenance and I promise it will burn more oil as it gets older.

That engine will not routinely get 200,000 miles before laying down and dying.

[taiwan_girl]

In my (I will admit limited) opinion, todays cars last longer and longer than previous generation cars, are safer, have more features, and get better gas mileage. (Yes, most of them pretty much look the same however, while old cars were all pretty unique for each other. LOL)

"Follow your manufacturer’s maintenance schedule and they’ll last a heckuva long time. But high mileage totals are even easier with today’s vehicles. A typical passenger car should last 200,000 miles or more, says Rich White, executive director of the nonprofit Car Care Council (which offers a free car care guide).

Another way of looking at it: “The average lifespan [of a car] is now almost 12 years,” says Eric Lyman, chief analyst at TrueCar. “It’s been a slow and steady climb over the past decades.”

That’s because cars are smarter, better designed and better built than they were 20 to 30 years ago. Automated factories have led to high-precision manufacturing. Parts are more reliable. Electric systems have replaced mechanical systems, which reduces breakdowns and improves engine efficiency. Better oil has increased intervals for oil changes — from every 3,000 miles to as high as every 15,000 miles. New coolants can last the car’s lifetime.
Expected Mileage From Today's Vehicles

Standard Cars : 200,000 miles
Electric Cars: 300,000 miles

“Ten years ago, you’d need to change your spark plugs probably every 30,000 miles — now it’s every 100,000 miles,” says Jill Trotta, a longtime mechanic and vice president, industry advocacy and sales, for RepairPal Inc., which certifies repair shops.

Technology, however, is the main reason for longer-lasting vehicles. Most improvements in efficiency, emissions, safety, reliability and longevity are from “microprocessors, microcontrollers and extensive unseen networks on board the cars themselves,” writes Cars.com Executive Editor Joe Wiesenfelder. Such improvements are increasing not only cars’ lifespans, but manufacturer warranties. Three years, 36,000 miles used to be standard, but 10-year, 100,000-mile warranties are becoming the norm. "