Medical Mary Jane
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@LuFins-Dad I agree. I think that every drug has some withdrawl with it. Caffiene, alcohol, etc.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Medical Mary Jane:
@mark said in Medical Mary Jane:
@George-K said in Medical Mary Jane:
Cannabis/Marijuana Use Disorder
But cannabis may have harmful long- and short-term effects, such as paranoia and memory loss, and it can be addictive and disrupt a user’s life and relationships.
Synthetic cannabinoids, compounds manufactured to replicate individual chemicals found in cannabis, are much more potent than cannabis and therefore could be more dangerous. Doctors at Yale Medicine treat patients for cannabis use disorder and are conducting leading research to advance pharmacological and behavioral therapies to treat it and to better understand the effects of cannabis on the brain.
About 10% of people who begin smoking cannabis will become addicted, and 30% of current users meet the criteria for addiction.
I was assured this never happens.
It doesn't. There is no withdrawal from quitting canabis cold turkey.
None.
University of Michigan seems to disagree. https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/body-work/more-than-half-of-people-using-cannabis-for-pain-experience-multiple-withdrawal-symptoms
Bullshit with an agenda.
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@mark said in Medical Mary Jane:
@LuFins-Dad said in Medical Mary Jane:
@mark said in Medical Mary Jane:
@George-K said in Medical Mary Jane:
Cannabis/Marijuana Use Disorder
But cannabis may have harmful long- and short-term effects, such as paranoia and memory loss, and it can be addictive and disrupt a user’s life and relationships.
Synthetic cannabinoids, compounds manufactured to replicate individual chemicals found in cannabis, are much more potent than cannabis and therefore could be more dangerous. Doctors at Yale Medicine treat patients for cannabis use disorder and are conducting leading research to advance pharmacological and behavioral therapies to treat it and to better understand the effects of cannabis on the brain.
About 10% of people who begin smoking cannabis will become addicted, and 30% of current users meet the criteria for addiction.
I was assured this never happens.
It doesn't. There is no withdrawal from quitting canabis cold turkey.
None.
University of Michigan seems to disagree. https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/body-work/more-than-half-of-people-using-cannabis-for-pain-experience-multiple-withdrawal-symptoms
Bullshit with an agenda.
It seems to me unrealistic to expect that nobody could at least become psychologically dependent on weed. In fact, I'm sure some of us know people that it happened to.
The idea that marijuana has no potential negative side effects is unsustainable, in my own personal experience
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Anything with any sort of negative side effects can become "psychologically addicting", if a person chooses to do that thing rather than chooses not to do that thing. Psychological addiction is a basically nonsensical term, though I'm sure "science" would disagree. Good thing science has been thoroughly debunked on TNCR, or I might care.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Medical Mary Jane:
@mark said in Medical Mary Jane:
@LuFins-Dad said in Medical Mary Jane:
@mark said in Medical Mary Jane:
@George-K said in Medical Mary Jane:
Cannabis/Marijuana Use Disorder
But cannabis may have harmful long- and short-term effects, such as paranoia and memory loss, and it can be addictive and disrupt a user’s life and relationships.
Synthetic cannabinoids, compounds manufactured to replicate individual chemicals found in cannabis, are much more potent than cannabis and therefore could be more dangerous. Doctors at Yale Medicine treat patients for cannabis use disorder and are conducting leading research to advance pharmacological and behavioral therapies to treat it and to better understand the effects of cannabis on the brain.
About 10% of people who begin smoking cannabis will become addicted, and 30% of current users meet the criteria for addiction.
I was assured this never happens.
It doesn't. There is no withdrawal from quitting canabis cold turkey.
None.
University of Michigan seems to disagree. https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/body-work/more-than-half-of-people-using-cannabis-for-pain-experience-multiple-withdrawal-symptoms
Bullshit with an agenda.
It seems to me unrealistic to expect that nobody could at least become psychologically dependent on weed. In fact, I'm sure some of us know people that it happened to.
The idea that marijuana has no potential negative side effects is unsustainable, in my own personal experience
There’s psychological and there’s physical. I’m not going to diminish the power of psychological withdrawal, but for this discussion I think @mark is looking for physical and biological dependency and withdrawal. These studies seem to indicate that they do exist, but at the same time I do have a lot less trust in supposedly blind studies. I am coming to think that money and political motives have a significant effect these days, and that is VERY dangerous.
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@Horace said in Medical Mary Jane:
Psychological addiction is a basically nonsensical term
I don't see why. If 'physically addictive' implies there are physical side-effects to trying to stop doing something, then feeling compelled to do something due to psychological effects doesn't seem like a particularly far-fetched concept.
There are physical withdrawal symptoms associated with giving up smoking, but the hardest part of giving up for me was not going back to it months after I quit during a stressful period of my life.
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Psychology is based on nebulous and non physical concepts and precepts. I find it difficult to call a science.
Psychiatry is supposedly based on physical and biological reasoning. The precepts are supposed to be able to be tested, theories are supposed to be provable, and results are supposed to be repeatable. As you can tell by my double use of supposed, you can tell that I have…concerns.
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Addiction and withdrawl are two gravely misused words, in my experience. The first has come to be applied to any repeated bad habit or behavior, while the former seems only to be applied to debilitating effects upon stopping use.
Neither use is really accurate. One can be addicted to opiates or cocaine, for instance. With opiates or benzos, the withdrawl symptoms (which are harder to establish than people want to admit) begin some hours after use ceases. It can last for days. With cocaine, withdrawl begins while you are still under the influence but don't have more to keep the high going at full steam. It lasts a couple or three hours, and once the effect fades, so does the craving. The physical addiction only lasts as long as the withdrawl.
I would define addiction as one where the withdraw IS debilitating. I would define withdrawl as any physical or psychological effect from stopping use.
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"Physical addiction" is probably better defined as physiologic dependence. In other words, if the substance is withdrawn, there will be measurable, physical changes that occur to your body with the withdrawal. Hypertension, sweating, fever, and seizures can occur. Narcotic, alcohol and benzo withdrawal are classic in this regard.
"Psychologic" is something different. Even though you will not have autonomic signs of withdrawal, you will feel terrible. Acute opiate withdrawal is both - and the physiologic part can kill you. "Feeling terrible" never killed anyone, at least not directly.
Mrs George is a chronic pain patient. She has been taking a steady dose of opiates for more than 20 years. She is not psychologically addicted. She actually forgets to take her meds every now and then. However, if she stops for a prolonged time, physiology kicks in, and it's not pleasant.
At least one site I found says that chronic cannabis users can have physiologic withdrawal.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Medical Mary Jane:
Psychology is based on nebulous and non physical concepts and precepts. I find it difficult to call a science.
Psychiatry is supposedly based on physical and biological reasoning. The precepts are supposed to be able to be tested, theories are supposed to be provable, and results are supposed to be repeatable. As you can tell by my double use of supposed, you can tell that I have…concerns.
How much have you really looked into either practice?
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Mrs. George's pain doc suggested that she try medical cannabis for her chronic pain issues (which, as I mentioned in another thread are remarkably well-controlled with opioids). So she did.
It was a totally ineffective, uncomfortable, and expensive experiment.
She went from vaping (coughed her lungs out) to edibles (no effect unless she got stoned) to...quitting.
The thing that gets me is that here, in the early 21st century, we're suggesting that an unregulated, unmeasured and un-studied chemical is being advocated as a treatment for....whatever ails you.
That's bullshit.
Find a disease. Find a medication. Find the dose that you suspect works. Then do the science.
There's no "science" behind this. Formulations, doses, frequencies are all not studied. This, in my opinion is total bullshit.
Does it work? Maybe. Show me the studies. Show me the double-blind, peer-reviewed studies. I'll wait.
I don't have enough knowledge to sat that cannabis is a safe intoxicant. It might be safer than alcohol for all I know.
But, don't tell me it's a panacea for chronic pain, anxiety, insomnia without showing me (there's that pesky word again) the science.
As I said, it might be safer than alcohol, which only has a three thousand year history, but as a treatment for disease, you guys can do better. A lot better.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Medical Mary Jane:
@LuFins-Dad said in Medical Mary Jane:
Psychology is based on nebulous and non physical concepts and precepts. I find it difficult to call a science.
Psychiatry is supposedly based on physical and biological reasoning. The precepts are supposed to be able to be tested, theories are supposed to be provable, and results are supposed to be repeatable. As you can tell by my double use of supposed, you can tell that I have…concerns.
How much have you really looked into either practice?
Slightly more than most of the subjects we all go on about.
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@George-K said in Medical Mary Jane:
Mrs. George's pain doc suggested that she try medical cannabis for her chronic pain issues (which, as I mentioned in another thread are remarkably well-controlled with opioids). So she did.
It was a totally ineffective, uncomfortable, and expensive experiment.
She went from vaping (coughed her lungs out) to edibles (no effect unless she got stoned) to...quitting.
The thing that gets me is that here, in the early 21st century, we're suggesting that an unregulated, unmeasured and un-studied chemical is being advocated as a treatment for....whatever ails you.
That's bullshit.
Find a disease. Find a medication. Find the dose that you suspect works. Then do the science.
There's no "science" behind this. Formulations, doses, frequencies are all not studied. This, in my opinion is total bullshit.
Does it work? Maybe. Show me the studies. Show me the double-blind, peer-reviewed studies. I'll wait.
I don't have enough knowledge to sat that cannabis is a safe intoxicant. It might be safer than alcohol for all I know.
But, don't tell me it's a panacea for chronic pain, anxiety, insomnia without showing me (there's that pesky word again) the science.
As I said, it might be safer than alcohol, which only has a three thousand year history, but as a treatment for disease, you guys can do better. A lot better.
I wholly agree. I think it should be legal, but not canonized as it is now.
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@George-K said in Medical Mary Jane:
The thing that gets me is that here, in the early 21st century, we're suggesting that an unregulated, unmeasured and un-studied chemical is being advocated as a treatment for....whatever ails you.
That's bullshit.
I agree with that 100%. Cannabis is fun. Well, it used to be. As I got older it started to not be so much fun. It actually made me feel worse then when I was not using it. So I stopped. Full stop. No withdrawal, physical or psychological. Period.
It's a choice to use cannabis. 100% a choice.
Best way to smoke cannabis is with a bong with ice water in it. Edibles do little to nothing for me. I built up such a tolerance to it, that even smoking very high grade pot, didn't even get me stoned any longer. What's the point in that?
