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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
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  • RenaudaR Offline
    RenaudaR Offline
    Renauda
    wrote last edited by
    #3012

    With Putin, it is never about the mass expenditure of human capital. In fact I am sure he adheres religiously to Stalin’s alleged quote:

    "A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.”

    Elbows up!

    1 Reply Last reply
    • MikM Away
      MikM Away
      Mik
      wrote last edited by
      #3013

      Those who forget history....

      (applies to all parties)

      "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

      1 Reply Last reply
      • AxtremusA Away
        AxtremusA Away
        Axtremus
        wrote last edited by
        #3014

        https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/21/world/europe/ukraine-russia-us-peace-plan.html?unlocked_article_code=1.208.qP_m.hyCR3PeKDQ8T

        The 28-point proposal [from the USA] favors Russia in pivotal aspects, including requiring Ukraine to cede territory and cap the size of its postwar army, while offering financial and geopolitical incentives to Moscow.

        @Renauda ... your thoughts?

        RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
        • MikM Away
          MikM Away
          Mik
          wrote last edited by
          #3015

          It’s delusional.

          "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

          W 1 Reply Last reply
          • MikM Mik

            It’s delusional.

            W Offline
            W Offline
            Wim
            wrote last edited by
            #3016

            @Mik Sheer madness.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • AxtremusA Axtremus

              https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/21/world/europe/ukraine-russia-us-peace-plan.html?unlocked_article_code=1.208.qP_m.hyCR3PeKDQ8T

              The 28-point proposal [from the USA] favors Russia in pivotal aspects, including requiring Ukraine to cede territory and cap the size of its postwar army, while offering financial and geopolitical incentives to Moscow.

              @Renauda ... your thoughts?

              RenaudaR Offline
              RenaudaR Offline
              Renauda
              wrote last edited by Renauda
              #3017

              @Axtremus said in The Ukraine war thread:

              https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/21/world/europe/ukraine-russia-us-peace-plan.html?unlocked_article_code=1.208.qP_m.hyCR3PeKDQ8T

              The 28-point proposal [from the USA] favors Russia in pivotal aspects, including requiring Ukraine to cede territory and cap the size of its postwar army, while offering financial and geopolitical incentives to Moscow.

              @Renauda ... your thoughts?

              I don’t think there’s much in it that I didn’t already anticipate in one form or another. It certainly rewards Putin’s unprovoked aggression of the past eleven years against Ukraine. It also gives Putin the time and opportunity he needs in order to finish off the country once and for all at a future date of his choosing. Think of it as a 21 century version of the Ribbentrop Molotov pact. It is not a lasting or just peace for Ukraine but rather a temporary non aggression pact between Russia and the US. It is nothing more than an armistice on Moscow’s maximalist terms that no one outside of the Kremlin or the Oval Office can like or trust.

              In the meantime, here is a link to Lawrence Friedman’s excellent analysis of what we know:

              https://open.substack.com/pub/samf/p/the-witkoff-dmitriev-peace-plan-annotated?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

              Elbows up!

              1 Reply Last reply
              • RenaudaR Offline
                RenaudaR Offline
                Renauda
                wrote last edited by
                #3018

                According to this former Russian diplomat, Putin will not accept the 28 point plan either because it is too generous to Kyiv and gives too much power to the POTUS:

                The final section of the plan is especially revealing: it puts forward the establishment of a so-called “Peace Council” led by President Donald Trump to oversee compliance. This arrangement is utterly unacceptable to Putin, as it places Trump in the position of supervising and assessing the Russian leader’s actions. Putin is waging war to prove that he has an equal right to shape global decisions alongside the U.S. president and other world leaders. He is fighting for imagined respect, for a status of equality — or primacy, even — among global actors. In this worldview, putting anyone above himself, especially someone as unpredictable as Trump, would be humiliating and a signal of weakness.

                https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2025/11/21/trumps-peace-plan-favors-russia-putin-still-wont-accept-it-a91209

                Elbows up!

                1 Reply Last reply
                • MikM Away
                  MikM Away
                  Mik
                  wrote last edited by
                  #3019

                  That makes perfect sense if you are Vlad. All he has to do is keep dancing, pretending to be interested in peace plans and continue what he wants to do anyway. At the very least he will garner ever more concessions with each iteration.

                  "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • RenaudaR Offline
                    RenaudaR Offline
                    Renauda
                    wrote last edited by
                    #3020

                    Former US Ambassador to Ukraine, John Herbst weighs in on the proposal:

                    https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-expert-conversation-separating-signal-from-noise-in-trumps-ukraine-peace-plan/

                    Elbows up!

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • MikM Away
                      MikM Away
                      Mik
                      wrote last edited by
                      #3021

                      I think he is spot on. Seize the assets and arm Ukraine to the teeth.

                      "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

                      1 Reply Last reply
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