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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
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  • MikM Away
    MikM Away
    Mik
    wrote last edited by Mik
    #3007

    Normally, no, it isn't. but we're pretty short on normal here. I don't think Trump can conceive of someone NOT wanting to make a deal.

    "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

    1 Reply Last reply
    • RenaudaR Offline
      RenaudaR Offline
      Renauda
      wrote last edited by Renauda
      #3008

      You may be right… after all, Trump still thinks Putin is his trusted friend. 🙄

      Elbows up!

      1 Reply Last reply
      • MikM Away
        MikM Away
        Mik
        wrote last edited by
        #3009

        I don’t think he believes it, he just tries to sell it. With normal humans it may have value, but Putin is not by any means a normal human.

        "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

        1 Reply Last reply
        • RenaudaR Offline
          RenaudaR Offline
          Renauda
          wrote last edited by
          #3010

          While he’s trying to sell it (or something to whom, no one knows for certain), Putin is slowly drowning him in a spoonful of water.

          Elbows up!

          1 Reply Last reply
          • MikM Away
            MikM Away
            Mik
            wrote last edited by
            #3011

            Indeed. Why should he quit? He still has at least a tenuous hold on Russia and in a war of attrition he will probably win. Not a bad approach if you don't care how many Russians you lose.

            "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

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            • RenaudaR Offline
              RenaudaR Offline
              Renauda
              wrote last edited by
              #3012

              With Putin, it is never about the mass expenditure of human capital. In fact I am sure he adheres religiously to Stalin’s alleged quote:

              "A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.”

              Elbows up!

              1 Reply Last reply
              • MikM Away
                MikM Away
                Mik
                wrote last edited by
                #3013

                Those who forget history....

                (applies to all parties)

                "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

                1 Reply Last reply
                • AxtremusA Offline
                  AxtremusA Offline
                  Axtremus
                  wrote last edited by
                  #3014

                  https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/21/world/europe/ukraine-russia-us-peace-plan.html?unlocked_article_code=1.208.qP_m.hyCR3PeKDQ8T

                  The 28-point proposal [from the USA] favors Russia in pivotal aspects, including requiring Ukraine to cede territory and cap the size of its postwar army, while offering financial and geopolitical incentives to Moscow.

                  @Renauda ... your thoughts?

                  RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                  • MikM Away
                    MikM Away
                    Mik
                    wrote last edited by
                    #3015

                    It’s delusional.

                    "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

                    W 1 Reply Last reply
                    • MikM Mik

                      It’s delusional.

                      W Offline
                      W Offline
                      Wim
                      wrote last edited by
                      #3016

                      @Mik Sheer madness.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • AxtremusA Axtremus

                        https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/21/world/europe/ukraine-russia-us-peace-plan.html?unlocked_article_code=1.208.qP_m.hyCR3PeKDQ8T

                        The 28-point proposal [from the USA] favors Russia in pivotal aspects, including requiring Ukraine to cede territory and cap the size of its postwar army, while offering financial and geopolitical incentives to Moscow.

                        @Renauda ... your thoughts?

                        RenaudaR Offline
                        RenaudaR Offline
                        Renauda
                        wrote last edited by Renauda
                        #3017

                        @Axtremus said in The Ukraine war thread:

                        https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/21/world/europe/ukraine-russia-us-peace-plan.html?unlocked_article_code=1.208.qP_m.hyCR3PeKDQ8T

                        The 28-point proposal [from the USA] favors Russia in pivotal aspects, including requiring Ukraine to cede territory and cap the size of its postwar army, while offering financial and geopolitical incentives to Moscow.

                        @Renauda ... your thoughts?

                        I don’t think there’s much in it that I didn’t already anticipate in one form or another. It certainly rewards Putin’s unprovoked aggression of the past eleven years against Ukraine. It also gives Putin the time and opportunity he needs in order to finish off the country once and for all at a future date of his choosing. Think of it as a 21 century version of the Ribbentrop Molotov pact. It is not a lasting or just peace for Ukraine but rather a temporary non aggression pact between Russia and the US. It is nothing more than an armistice on Moscow’s maximalist terms that no one outside of the Kremlin or the Oval Office can like or trust.

                        In the meantime, here is a link to Lawrence Friedman’s excellent analysis of what we know:

                        https://open.substack.com/pub/samf/p/the-witkoff-dmitriev-peace-plan-annotated?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

                        Elbows up!

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • RenaudaR Offline
                          RenaudaR Offline
                          Renauda
                          wrote last edited by
                          #3018

                          According to this former Russian diplomat, Putin will not accept the 28 point plan either because it is too generous to Kyiv and gives too much power to the POTUS:

                          The final section of the plan is especially revealing: it puts forward the establishment of a so-called “Peace Council” led by President Donald Trump to oversee compliance. This arrangement is utterly unacceptable to Putin, as it places Trump in the position of supervising and assessing the Russian leader’s actions. Putin is waging war to prove that he has an equal right to shape global decisions alongside the U.S. president and other world leaders. He is fighting for imagined respect, for a status of equality — or primacy, even — among global actors. In this worldview, putting anyone above himself, especially someone as unpredictable as Trump, would be humiliating and a signal of weakness.

                          https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2025/11/21/trumps-peace-plan-favors-russia-putin-still-wont-accept-it-a91209

                          Elbows up!

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • MikM Away
                            MikM Away
                            Mik
                            wrote last edited by
                            #3019

                            That makes perfect sense if you are Vlad. All he has to do is keep dancing, pretending to be interested in peace plans and continue what he wants to do anyway. At the very least he will garner ever more concessions with each iteration.

                            "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • RenaudaR Offline
                              RenaudaR Offline
                              Renauda
                              wrote last edited by
                              #3020

                              Former US Ambassador to Ukraine, John Herbst weighs in on the proposal:

                              https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-expert-conversation-separating-signal-from-noise-in-trumps-ukraine-peace-plan/

                              Elbows up!

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • MikM Away
                                MikM Away
                                Mik
                                wrote last edited by
                                #3021

                                I think he is spot on. Seize the assets and arm Ukraine to the teeth.

                                "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

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