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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
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  • MikM Offline
    MikM Offline
    Mik
    wrote last edited by
    #3005

    He's just throwing shit against the wall to see if anything sticks.

    "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

    1 Reply Last reply
    • RenaudaR Offline
      RenaudaR Offline
      Renauda
      wrote last edited by Renauda
      #3006

      I don’t believe that for a minute. War diplomacy is not a jam session to see what sticks to the wall.

      Elbows up!

      1 Reply Last reply
      • MikM Offline
        MikM Offline
        Mik
        wrote last edited by Mik
        #3007

        Normally, no, it isn't. but we're pretty short on normal here. I don't think Trump can conceive of someone NOT wanting to make a deal.

        "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

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        • RenaudaR Offline
          RenaudaR Offline
          Renauda
          wrote last edited by Renauda
          #3008

          You may be right… after all, Trump still thinks Putin is his trusted friend. 🙄

          Elbows up!

          1 Reply Last reply
          • MikM Offline
            MikM Offline
            Mik
            wrote last edited by
            #3009

            I don’t think he believes it, he just tries to sell it. With normal humans it may have value, but Putin is not by any means a normal human.

            "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

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            • RenaudaR Offline
              RenaudaR Offline
              Renauda
              wrote last edited by
              #3010

              While he’s trying to sell it (or something to whom, no one knows for certain), Putin is slowly drowning him in a spoonful of water.

              Elbows up!

              1 Reply Last reply
              • MikM Offline
                MikM Offline
                Mik
                wrote last edited by
                #3011

                Indeed. Why should he quit? He still has at least a tenuous hold on Russia and in a war of attrition he will probably win. Not a bad approach if you don't care how many Russians you lose.

                "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

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                • RenaudaR Offline
                  RenaudaR Offline
                  Renauda
                  wrote last edited by
                  #3012

                  With Putin, it is never about the mass expenditure of human capital. In fact I am sure he adheres religiously to Stalin’s alleged quote:

                  "A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.”

                  Elbows up!

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • MikM Offline
                    MikM Offline
                    Mik
                    wrote last edited by
                    #3013

                    Those who forget history....

                    (applies to all parties)

                    "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

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                    • AxtremusA Offline
                      AxtremusA Offline
                      Axtremus
                      wrote last edited by
                      #3014

                      https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/21/world/europe/ukraine-russia-us-peace-plan.html?unlocked_article_code=1.208.qP_m.hyCR3PeKDQ8T

                      The 28-point proposal [from the USA] favors Russia in pivotal aspects, including requiring Ukraine to cede territory and cap the size of its postwar army, while offering financial and geopolitical incentives to Moscow.

                      @Renauda ... your thoughts?

                      RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                      • MikM Offline
                        MikM Offline
                        Mik
                        wrote last edited by
                        #3015

                        It’s delusional.

                        "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

                        W 1 Reply Last reply
                        • MikM Mik

                          It’s delusional.

                          W Offline
                          W Offline
                          Wim
                          wrote last edited by
                          #3016

                          @Mik Sheer madness.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • AxtremusA Axtremus

                            https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/21/world/europe/ukraine-russia-us-peace-plan.html?unlocked_article_code=1.208.qP_m.hyCR3PeKDQ8T

                            The 28-point proposal [from the USA] favors Russia in pivotal aspects, including requiring Ukraine to cede territory and cap the size of its postwar army, while offering financial and geopolitical incentives to Moscow.

                            @Renauda ... your thoughts?

                            RenaudaR Offline
                            RenaudaR Offline
                            Renauda
                            wrote last edited by Renauda
                            #3017

                            @Axtremus said in The Ukraine war thread:

                            https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/21/world/europe/ukraine-russia-us-peace-plan.html?unlocked_article_code=1.208.qP_m.hyCR3PeKDQ8T

                            The 28-point proposal [from the USA] favors Russia in pivotal aspects, including requiring Ukraine to cede territory and cap the size of its postwar army, while offering financial and geopolitical incentives to Moscow.

                            @Renauda ... your thoughts?

                            I don’t think there’s much in it that I didn’t already anticipate in one form or another. It certainly rewards Putin’s unprovoked aggression of the past eleven years against Ukraine. It also gives Putin the time and opportunity he needs in order to finish off the country once and for all at a future date of his choosing. Think of it as a 21 century version of the Ribbentrop Molotov pact. It is not a lasting or just peace for Ukraine but rather a temporary non aggression pact between Russia and the US. It is nothing more than an armistice on Moscow’s maximalist terms that no one outside of the Kremlin or the Oval Office can like or trust.

                            In the meantime, here is a link to Lawrence Friedman’s excellent analysis of what we know:

                            https://open.substack.com/pub/samf/p/the-witkoff-dmitriev-peace-plan-annotated?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

                            Elbows up!

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • RenaudaR Offline
                              RenaudaR Offline
                              Renauda
                              wrote last edited by
                              #3018

                              According to this former Russian diplomat, Putin will not accept the 28 point plan either because it is too generous to Kyiv and gives too much power to the POTUS:

                              The final section of the plan is especially revealing: it puts forward the establishment of a so-called “Peace Council” led by President Donald Trump to oversee compliance. This arrangement is utterly unacceptable to Putin, as it places Trump in the position of supervising and assessing the Russian leader’s actions. Putin is waging war to prove that he has an equal right to shape global decisions alongside the U.S. president and other world leaders. He is fighting for imagined respect, for a status of equality — or primacy, even — among global actors. In this worldview, putting anyone above himself, especially someone as unpredictable as Trump, would be humiliating and a signal of weakness.

                              https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2025/11/21/trumps-peace-plan-favors-russia-putin-still-wont-accept-it-a91209

                              Elbows up!

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • MikM Offline
                                MikM Offline
                                Mik
                                wrote last edited by
                                #3019

                                That makes perfect sense if you are Vlad. All he has to do is keep dancing, pretending to be interested in peace plans and continue what he wants to do anyway. At the very least he will garner ever more concessions with each iteration.

                                "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

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