The Ukraine war thread
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@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
It appears difficult to discuss how the American media covers a story and its motivations for doing so, without being accused of thinking the subject of the story is America. That interpretation of the discussion is a simple misunderstanding, but one from which people for some reason refuse to dislodge.
Well, if Jolly would make clear what he's actually trying to say, rather than just drop hints about some kind of conspiracy or 'deeper truths', it would be a lot easier to discuss this in a straightforward manner.
As far as I can tell, the motivation behind this war is very easy to understand. There's no need for talk of conspiracies or hidden forces at work.
People enjoy being enigmatic. Jon was artfully enigmatic in his post above, which I asked clarification of. But you don’t see me complaining about it.
wrote on 21 Mar 2022, 14:03 last edited by@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
It appears difficult to discuss how the American media covers a story and its motivations for doing so, without being accused of thinking the subject of the story is America. That interpretation of the discussion is a simple misunderstanding, but one from which people for some reason refuse to dislodge.
Well, if Jolly would make clear what he's actually trying to say, rather than just drop hints about some kind of conspiracy or 'deeper truths', it would be a lot easier to discuss this in a straightforward manner.
As far as I can tell, the motivation behind this war is very easy to understand. There's no need for talk of conspiracies or hidden forces at work.
People enjoy being enigmatic. Jon was artfully enigmatic in his post above, which I asked clarification of. But you don’t see me complaining about it.
How was he enigmatic? We all know what he meant.
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@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
It appears difficult to discuss how the American media covers a story and its motivations for doing so, without being accused of thinking the subject of the story is America. That interpretation of the discussion is a simple misunderstanding, but one from which people for some reason refuse to dislodge.
Well, if Jolly would make clear what he's actually trying to say, rather than just drop hints about some kind of conspiracy or 'deeper truths', it would be a lot easier to discuss this in a straightforward manner.
As far as I can tell, the motivation behind this war is very easy to understand. There's no need for talk of conspiracies or hidden forces at work.
People enjoy being enigmatic. Jon was artfully enigmatic in his post above, which I asked clarification of. But you don’t see me complaining about it.
How was he enigmatic? We all know what he meant.
wrote on 21 Mar 2022, 14:21 last edited by Horace@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
It appears difficult to discuss how the American media covers a story and its motivations for doing so, without being accused of thinking the subject of the story is America. That interpretation of the discussion is a simple misunderstanding, but one from which people for some reason refuse to dislodge.
Well, if Jolly would make clear what he's actually trying to say, rather than just drop hints about some kind of conspiracy or 'deeper truths', it would be a lot easier to discuss this in a straightforward manner.
As far as I can tell, the motivation behind this war is very easy to understand. There's no need for talk of conspiracies or hidden forces at work.
People enjoy being enigmatic. Jon was artfully enigmatic in his post above, which I asked clarification of. But you don’t see me complaining about it.
How was he enigmatic? We all know what he meant.
Maybe the whole world shares in this feeling that there’s a sharp line between boots on the ground and economic support for other boots on the ground, but considering the fact that that feeling is completely irrational, I wouldn’t count on it being held by everybody forever.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
It appears difficult to discuss how the American media covers a story and its motivations for doing so, without being accused of thinking the subject of the story is America. That interpretation of the discussion is a simple misunderstanding, but one from which people for some reason refuse to dislodge.
Well, if Jolly would make clear what he's actually trying to say, rather than just drop hints about some kind of conspiracy or 'deeper truths', it would be a lot easier to discuss this in a straightforward manner.
As far as I can tell, the motivation behind this war is very easy to understand. There's no need for talk of conspiracies or hidden forces at work.
People enjoy being enigmatic. Jon was artfully enigmatic in his post above, which I asked clarification of. But you don’t see me complaining about it.
How was he enigmatic? We all know what he meant.
Maybe the whole world shares in this feeling that there’s a sharp line between boots on the ground and economic support for other boots on the ground, but considering the fact that that feeling is completely irrational, I wouldn’t count on it being held by everybody forever.
wrote on 21 Mar 2022, 14:30 last edited by@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
It appears difficult to discuss how the American media covers a story and its motivations for doing so, without being accused of thinking the subject of the story is America. That interpretation of the discussion is a simple misunderstanding, but one from which people for some reason refuse to dislodge.
Well, if Jolly would make clear what he's actually trying to say, rather than just drop hints about some kind of conspiracy or 'deeper truths', it would be a lot easier to discuss this in a straightforward manner.
As far as I can tell, the motivation behind this war is very easy to understand. There's no need for talk of conspiracies or hidden forces at work.
People enjoy being enigmatic. Jon was artfully enigmatic in his post above, which I asked clarification of. But you don’t see me complaining about it.
How was he enigmatic? We all know what he meant.
Maybe the whole world shares in this feeling that there’s a sharp line between boots on the ground and economic support for other boots on the ground, but considering the fact that that feeling is completely irrational, I wouldn’t count on it being held by everybody forever.
Who doesn't understand that it's ideal to strike a balance between supporting Ukraine and a nuclear winter?
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@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
It appears difficult to discuss how the American media covers a story and its motivations for doing so, without being accused of thinking the subject of the story is America. That interpretation of the discussion is a simple misunderstanding, but one from which people for some reason refuse to dislodge.
Well, if Jolly would make clear what he's actually trying to say, rather than just drop hints about some kind of conspiracy or 'deeper truths', it would be a lot easier to discuss this in a straightforward manner.
As far as I can tell, the motivation behind this war is very easy to understand. There's no need for talk of conspiracies or hidden forces at work.
People enjoy being enigmatic. Jon was artfully enigmatic in his post above, which I asked clarification of. But you don’t see me complaining about it.
How was he enigmatic? We all know what he meant.
Maybe the whole world shares in this feeling that there’s a sharp line between boots on the ground and economic support for other boots on the ground, but considering the fact that that feeling is completely irrational, I wouldn’t count on it being held by everybody forever.
Who doesn't understand that it's ideal to strike a balance between supporting Ukraine and a nuclear winter?
wrote on 21 Mar 2022, 14:35 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
It appears difficult to discuss how the American media covers a story and its motivations for doing so, without being accused of thinking the subject of the story is America. That interpretation of the discussion is a simple misunderstanding, but one from which people for some reason refuse to dislodge.
Well, if Jolly would make clear what he's actually trying to say, rather than just drop hints about some kind of conspiracy or 'deeper truths', it would be a lot easier to discuss this in a straightforward manner.
As far as I can tell, the motivation behind this war is very easy to understand. There's no need for talk of conspiracies or hidden forces at work.
People enjoy being enigmatic. Jon was artfully enigmatic in his post above, which I asked clarification of. But you don’t see me complaining about it.
How was he enigmatic? We all know what he meant.
Maybe the whole world shares in this feeling that there’s a sharp line between boots on the ground and economic support for other boots on the ground, but considering the fact that that feeling is completely irrational, I wouldn’t count on it being held by everybody forever.
Who doesn't understand that it's ideal to strike a balance between supporting Ukraine and a nuclear winter?
The issue is a sharp dividing line between one sort of non nuclear support and another. A line that can be questioned and discussed without getting performatively shocked faced about it.
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@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
It appears difficult to discuss how the American media covers a story and its motivations for doing so, without being accused of thinking the subject of the story is America. That interpretation of the discussion is a simple misunderstanding, but one from which people for some reason refuse to dislodge.
Well, if Jolly would make clear what he's actually trying to say, rather than just drop hints about some kind of conspiracy or 'deeper truths', it would be a lot easier to discuss this in a straightforward manner.
As far as I can tell, the motivation behind this war is very easy to understand. There's no need for talk of conspiracies or hidden forces at work.
People should just come out and say what they mean. When people skirt around an issue and drop hints and all the rest of it, I'm left wondering if they're just covering their ass for later so they can say "I never said that!". This is TNCR, nobody important gives a shit what any of us say, after all.
wrote on 21 Mar 2022, 14:41 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
It appears difficult to discuss how the American media covers a story and its motivations for doing so, without being accused of thinking the subject of the story is America. That interpretation of the discussion is a simple misunderstanding, but one from which people for some reason refuse to dislodge.
Well, if Jolly would make clear what he's actually trying to say, rather than just drop hints about some kind of conspiracy or 'deeper truths', it would be a lot easier to discuss this in a straightforward manner.
As far as I can tell, the motivation behind this war is very easy to understand. There's no need for talk of conspiracies or hidden forces at work.
People should just come out and say what they mean. When people skirt around an issue and drop hints and all the rest of it, I'm left wondering if they're just covering their ass for later so they can say "I never said that!". This is TNCR, nobody important gives a shit what any of us say, after all.
Jolly made it quite clear. It's Wag the Dog by proxy and in reverse. The media didn't create the war, but the amount of coverage and the type of coverage can do a couple of things:
A. By selecting stories, the media can push narratives and create sentiment. A constant stream of human tragedy stories pushes the emotional buttons of good people and compels them to do something. Ever watch those 60 second ASPCA commercials of the emaciated dog starving in the snow, shivering from the bitter cold? They're effective. Imagine a barrage of like stories involving humans in a war zone. Air enough of them and you effect policy.
B. With the war coverage, it leaves a lot less time on MSM coverage for other stories. The MSM will then pick and choose what stories it covers. A Presidential candidate lying in a Presidential debate, touting 50 expert opinions as concluding the Hunter Laptop was "disinformation" and a Russian plot and then the MSM's refusal to carry that story is huge. ..That means the MSM directly influenced a Presidential election, not through a sin of ommission, but a sin of commission.
It also means by not covering the story now, the MSM is protecting their investment in a senile President who us doing whatever his handlers and party machine tell him to do. They are doubling down.
Now, can you understand that or am I typing too fast for you?
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@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
It appears difficult to discuss how the American media covers a story and its motivations for doing so, without being accused of thinking the subject of the story is America. That interpretation of the discussion is a simple misunderstanding, but one from which people for some reason refuse to dislodge.
Well, if Jolly would make clear what he's actually trying to say, rather than just drop hints about some kind of conspiracy or 'deeper truths', it would be a lot easier to discuss this in a straightforward manner.
As far as I can tell, the motivation behind this war is very easy to understand. There's no need for talk of conspiracies or hidden forces at work.
People should just come out and say what they mean. When people skirt around an issue and drop hints and all the rest of it, I'm left wondering if they're just covering their ass for later so they can say "I never said that!". This is TNCR, nobody important gives a shit what any of us say, after all.
Jolly made it quite clear. It's Wag the Dog by proxy and in reverse. The media didn't create the war, but the amount of coverage and the type of coverage can do a couple of things:
A. By selecting stories, the media can push narratives and create sentiment. A constant stream of human tragedy stories pushes the emotional buttons of good people and compels them to do something. Ever watch those 60 second ASPCA commercials of the emaciated dog starving in the snow, shivering from the bitter cold? They're effective. Imagine a barrage of like stories involving humans in a war zone. Air enough of them and you effect policy.
B. With the war coverage, it leaves a lot less time on MSM coverage for other stories. The MSM will then pick and choose what stories it covers. A Presidential candidate lying in a Presidential debate, touting 50 expert opinions as concluding the Hunter Laptop was "disinformation" and a Russian plot and then the MSM's refusal to carry that story is huge. ..That means the MSM directly influenced a Presidential election, not through a sin of ommission, but a sin of commission.
It also means by not covering the story now, the MSM is protecting their investment in a senile President who us doing whatever his handlers and party machine tell him to do. They are doubling down.
Now, can you understand that or am I typing too fast for you?
wrote on 21 Mar 2022, 14:52 last edited by Doctor Phibes@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
It appears difficult to discuss how the American media covers a story and its motivations for doing so, without being accused of thinking the subject of the story is America. That interpretation of the discussion is a simple misunderstanding, but one from which people for some reason refuse to dislodge.
Well, if Jolly would make clear what he's actually trying to say, rather than just drop hints about some kind of conspiracy or 'deeper truths', it would be a lot easier to discuss this in a straightforward manner.
As far as I can tell, the motivation behind this war is very easy to understand. There's no need for talk of conspiracies or hidden forces at work.
People should just come out and say what they mean. When people skirt around an issue and drop hints and all the rest of it, I'm left wondering if they're just covering their ass for later so they can say "I never said that!". This is TNCR, nobody important gives a shit what any of us say, after all.
Jolly made it quite clear. It's Wag the Dog by proxy and in reverse. The media didn't create the war, but the amount of coverage and the type of coverage can do a couple of things:
A. By selecting stories, the media can push narratives and create sentiment. A constant stream of human tragedy stories pushes the emotional buttons of good people and compels them to do something. Ever watch those 60 second ASPCA commercials of the emaciated dog starving in the snow, shivering from the bitter cold? They're effective. Imagine a barrage of like stories involving humans in a war zone. Air enough of them and you effect policy.
B. With the war coverage, it leaves a lot less time on MSM coverage for other stories. The MSM will then pick and choose what stories it covers. A Presidential candidate lying in a Presidential debate, touting 50 expert opinions as concluding the Hunter Laptop was "disinformation" and a Russian plot and then the MSM's refusal to carry that story is huge. ..That means the MSM directly influenced a Presidential election, not through a sin of ommission, but a sin of commission.
It also means by not covering the story now, the MSM is protecting their investment in a senile President who us doing whatever his handlers and party machine tell him to do. They are doubling down.
Now, can you understand that or am I typing too fast for you?
To be honest, I get most of my news from the BBC rather than American sources. There is a great deal of coverage of Ukraine, there. Probably less about American domestic politics than you'd like. I rather doubt the Beeb don't cover all that stuff because they love Joe Biden.
Typically, you won't see people in Europe saying "Why should I care what happens in Ukraine?" as some Americans have apparently said.
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@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Doctor-Phibes said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Horace said in The Ukraine war thread:
It appears difficult to discuss how the American media covers a story and its motivations for doing so, without being accused of thinking the subject of the story is America. That interpretation of the discussion is a simple misunderstanding, but one from which people for some reason refuse to dislodge.
Well, if Jolly would make clear what he's actually trying to say, rather than just drop hints about some kind of conspiracy or 'deeper truths', it would be a lot easier to discuss this in a straightforward manner.
As far as I can tell, the motivation behind this war is very easy to understand. There's no need for talk of conspiracies or hidden forces at work.
People should just come out and say what they mean. When people skirt around an issue and drop hints and all the rest of it, I'm left wondering if they're just covering their ass for later so they can say "I never said that!". This is TNCR, nobody important gives a shit what any of us say, after all.
Jolly made it quite clear. It's Wag the Dog by proxy and in reverse. The media didn't create the war, but the amount of coverage and the type of coverage can do a couple of things:
A. By selecting stories, the media can push narratives and create sentiment. A constant stream of human tragedy stories pushes the emotional buttons of good people and compels them to do something. Ever watch those 60 second ASPCA commercials of the emaciated dog starving in the snow, shivering from the bitter cold? They're effective. Imagine a barrage of like stories involving humans in a war zone. Air enough of them and you effect policy.
B. With the war coverage, it leaves a lot less time on MSM coverage for other stories. The MSM will then pick and choose what stories it covers. A Presidential candidate lying in a Presidential debate, touting 50 expert opinions as concluding the Hunter Laptop was "disinformation" and a Russian plot and then the MSM's refusal to carry that story is huge. ..That means the MSM directly influenced a Presidential election, not through a sin of ommission, but a sin of commission.
It also means by not covering the story now, the MSM is protecting their investment in a senile President who us doing whatever his handlers and party machine tell him to do. They are doubling down.
Now, can you understand that or am I typing too fast for you?
To be honest, I get most of my news from the BBC rather than American sources. There is a great deal of coverage of Ukraine, there. Probably less about American domestic politics than you'd like. I rather doubt the Beeb don't cover all that stuff because they love Joe Biden.
Typically, you won't see people in Europe saying "Why should I care what happens in Ukraine?" as some Americans have apparently said.
wrote on 21 Mar 2022, 16:36 last edited by RenaudaUnless someone sends me a specific link I avoid US media sources. Like you, I too follow the BBC reports as well several European sources in English. Our own CBC is not too bad although it is more or less BBC lite. For print media the National Post and Globe and Mail from time to time also provide some fairly decent analysis depending on the topic.
There are however some excellent US sources but they are not part of the slick media outlets. Rather they are found with various think tanks and specialised research institutes and schools that operate out of the country’s universities.
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wrote on 21 Mar 2022, 17:36 last edited by
I try to follow on Twitter people physically in Ukraine who are eyeballing the situation although there are not so many English speaking and most extremely anti Russian and therefore sometimes suspect in objectivity.
But for the usual news…all MSM. (an acronym I hate because it’s the one used by people at each end of the political spectrum when they don’t hear what they want to hear)
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wrote on 21 Mar 2022, 20:29 last edited by
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wrote on 21 Mar 2022, 21:47 last edited by
You KIA 10K and that's a big deal. A really big deal.
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wrote on 21 Mar 2022, 21:53 last edited by Renauda
Especially when it all happened in the course of three weeks in a special military operation that was not meeting any resistance other than fraternal greetings and offerings of bread and salt to the troops.
MIL told spouse yesterday in their zoom call that the bodies are beginning to arrive home in the city for burial. Also no sugar or bleached office paper in to be had anywhere.
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wrote on 21 Mar 2022, 22:00 last edited by
The world's response is unprecedented. While I abhor the loss of life and the accompanying misery, we are seeing something truly new in human history.
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wrote on 22 Mar 2022, 01:13 last edited by
Shooting civilians:
Link to video -
Shooting civilians:
Link to videowrote on 22 Mar 2022, 01:35 last edited byI would agree with the youtube comment that that wasn't intentionally lethal stuff, whatever it was.
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wrote on 22 Mar 2022, 17:39 last edited by
6 days worth of losses:
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wrote on 22 Mar 2022, 19:09 last edited by
Change in tactics.
Look at Russian helicopter losses.
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wrote on 23 Mar 2022, 06:14 last edited by
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wrote on 23 Mar 2022, 08:44 last edited by
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wrote on 23 Mar 2022, 12:44 last edited by
Saw on the news last night that the Ukranians are engaged in a few small offensive operations. And winning.
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wrote on 23 Mar 2022, 12:53 last edited by
I have been wondering if Ukraine would dare launch an assault into Russian territory and if so what that looks like? An assault on the disputed Donbas region? An assault on non-disputed Russian land?
