Well, the cruise missiles are flying..
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Well, the cruise missiles are flying..:
Wonder if this stops at Ukraine.
Should be noted that, unlike Ukraine, the Baltics are members of NATO. Not sure if that changes the dynamic, but "an attack on one is an attack on all."
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Why Ukraine matters: (Saw this on FB, not verified but I think it is true)
For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter? “
This is why Ukraine matters.
It is the second largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population
of over 40 million - more than Poland.
Ukraine ranks:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)
Ukraine is an important agricultural country:
1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.
Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.
Ukraine is an important industrialised country:
1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).
Ukraine matters. That is why its independence is important to the rest of the world."My pronouns are FA/FO." - Mik, 2024
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@Mik "Why Ukraine matters" ... putting together a list of "whys" is easy. Quantifying "how much" is what determines actions or lack thereof.
How much does Ukraine matter?
Answer that in terms of American treasures determines what monetary and material aid the USA send Ukraine.
Answer that in terms of American lives determines whether we send ground troops.
Will Congress pass a resolution to send material aid to Ukraine anytime soon? Maybe. How much will the resolution authorize? Don't know.
Will Congress declare war, will the Commander in Chief send group troops? So far it looks like the answers to both are most likely "no." Cannot remember the exact figure now, but recently I cited a popular opinion poll that says a large majority of Americans do not support sending American ground troops to Ukraine.
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The Chernobyl nuclear power plant has been captured by Russian forces, an adviser to the Ukrainian presidential office, Mykhailo Podolyak, said on Thursday.
"It is impossible to say the Chernobyl nuclear power plant is safe after a totally pointless attack by the Russians," he said.
"This is one of the most serious threats in Europe today," Podolyak said.
Russian troops took over the power plant while Ukrainian forces battled them on three sides on Thursday after Moscow mounted an assault by land, sea and air in the biggest attack on a European state since World War Two.
Some Russian military massed in the Chernobyl "exclusion zone" before crossing into Ukraine early on Thursday, a Russian security source said.
Russia wants to control the Chernobyl nuclear reactor to signal NATO not to interfere militarily, the same source said.
The Chernobyl disaster in then-Soviet Ukraine sent clouds of nuclear material across much of Europe in 1986 after a botched safety test in the fourth reactor of the atomic plant.
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Nothing concentrates a man's mind, quite like an imminent hanging.
Wonder what the Europeans are thinking today?
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@Horace said in Well, the cruise missiles are flying..:
Is there a point to Ukraine resisting other than a desire to die fighting?
Thoughts from nyt
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/22/world/europe/chernobyl-ukraine-invasion-russia.html
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@Klaus said in Well, the cruise missiles are flying..:
@Horace said in Well, the cruise missiles are flying..:
Is there a point to Ukraine resisting other than a desire to die fighting?
Increase the prize of conquering and hope that this makes the endeavour less attractive. It might even work.
Considering how invested Putin is in the manly man image, I don't see how that could work.
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"My pronouns are FA/FO." - Mik, 2024
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@Mik said in Well, the cruise missiles are flying..:
It’s a terrible thought, but I think back to the videos of Baghdad in 2003. Did we have greater justification to invade a sovereign nation?
More than what Putin used for Ukraine....
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- We thought that faction of Al queda were in Iraq and being helped by the Iraqi government.
- Hussein had threatened the life of 41. Dumb move.
- We knew Hussein had WMD in the form of nerve gas and chemical artillery shells. I think a good bit wound up in Syria.
- Oil. Further wars in that section of the world would certainly destabilize energy prices.
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I’ll also add that Saddam was still sponsoring terrorism, was repeatedly attacking the peacekeepers, was barring access to UN Inspectors, and was starving his people while living in obscene wealth.
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@Mik said in Well, the cruise missiles are flying..:
All that seems right to us. Not sure it does to the rest of the world.
Well, since Iraq is not our 51st state or even a territory and considering that we import less oil from Iraq than we do Ecuador, I think comparisons with an invasion meant to subsume a nation and their citizens doesn’t hold water. If other people feel differently, that’s okay. They are allowed to be idiots.
