Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?
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wrote on 21 Feb 2022, 21:56 last edited by
I will second that experience. Your first thought is definitely not "I could take him...".
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wrote on 21 Feb 2022, 22:38 last edited by
The one time I had a real gun pulled on me - and trigger pulled (idiot teenager), my only thought was curiosity if that thought would be my last. I told no one.
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wrote on 21 Feb 2022, 22:48 last edited by
@Klaus, FWIW, my 9mm is a Warther. Not sure how popular Walther is in Germany, but it is German made. I chose the Walther over a Glock simply because I feel that the Walther fits my grip better.
@Jolly, thank you for sharing your expertise and perspective on the 9mm v. .45 question. FWIW, whatever little experience I have, it certainly jives with your comment about most people not shooting the .45 as well as the 9mm. I have been thinking about adding a .45 just to expand my horizon a little bit. I have shot a Glock 21 and a 1911 before, but on different days. So I do not retain a good sense of how they compare. As such, I would appreciate it if you can elaborate a bit on what you mean by the 1911’s “wonderful trigger.” I mean, how is it “wonderful” when compared to a Glock or another .45 option that presumably is not as wonderful? Might you have an opinion on the Glock 21? I have also learnt that there are many different brands/makes for 1911. Unfortunately I cannot recall which specific brand/make of 1911 I shot. If I were to look into the 1911 further, are their specific brands of 1911 you’d recommend that I look into? If I were to find another opportunity to shoot a Glock 21 and a 1911 in the same session, what aspects of the shooting would you recommend that I pay attention to to get a better sense of how the two compare?
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wrote on 22 Feb 2022, 00:09 last edited by Jolly
Glocks are great guns. They are simple and they work. They were one of the first pistols with polymer frames. The 21 has a capacity of around 13, IIRC. Lot of guys in bear country will carry almost the same gun, a model 20 in 10mm. Because of the polymer frame, the 21 is a fairly soft shooting .45.
Another classic .45 I like is the Sig P220. Louisiana State Police used to carry this weapon and they cried when they had to turn them in for .40 Glocks. The DA/SA trigger does have a learning curve, but they are truly dependable, quality firearms.
1911's? Old Slabsides? Pointing and trigger, trigger, trigger. SA, a good one can give you a four pound trigger with no creep and it's like breaking a glass rod. And since guys have been working on them so long, some custom shops will guarantee 3" at 50 yards or it doesn't leave the shop. You can spend what you want on a 1911. Something from a good maker like Colt, Kimber or Springfield Armory should come in at less than $1000, preferably closer to $809 for a working man's gun. colt will keep resale a tad higher, but not much. The custom shops? Ed Brown, Les Baer and Wilson Combat make some fine pistols. At fine prices. $3000+.
I listed the guns in order of ease of use. If you are used to striker fired, another maker's or the same maker's striker fired is less of a learning curve than DA/SA.
And a 1911? To do it right, it's a bit of a different world. I tend to carry that type of gun cocked and locked. Screw up under stress and no practice and you can hurt yourself while drawing and thumbing the safety off. If you want to be a 1911 guy, you commit to practice with a 1911.
Now, all of the above is a very short piece of opinion on a very huge and personal subject. Shoot what feels good to you, not me.
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@Klaus, FWIW, my 9mm is a Warther. Not sure how popular Walther is in Germany, but it is German made. I chose the Walther over a Glock simply because I feel that the Walther fits my grip better.
@Jolly, thank you for sharing your expertise and perspective on the 9mm v. .45 question. FWIW, whatever little experience I have, it certainly jives with your comment about most people not shooting the .45 as well as the 9mm. I have been thinking about adding a .45 just to expand my horizon a little bit. I have shot a Glock 21 and a 1911 before, but on different days. So I do not retain a good sense of how they compare. As such, I would appreciate it if you can elaborate a bit on what you mean by the 1911’s “wonderful trigger.” I mean, how is it “wonderful” when compared to a Glock or another .45 option that presumably is not as wonderful? Might you have an opinion on the Glock 21? I have also learnt that there are many different brands/makes for 1911. Unfortunately I cannot recall which specific brand/make of 1911 I shot. If I were to look into the 1911 further, are their specific brands of 1911 you’d recommend that I look into? If I were to find another opportunity to shoot a Glock 21 and a 1911 in the same session, what aspects of the shooting would you recommend that I pay attention to to get a better sense of how the two compare?
wrote on 22 Feb 2022, 00:17 last edited by@Axtremus said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
@Klaus, FWIW, my 9mm is a Warther. Not sure how popular Walther is in Germany, but it is German made. I chose the Walther over a Glock simply because I feel that the Walther fits my grip better.
I didn't know Walthers were limp wristed....
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wrote on 22 Feb 2022, 01:35 last edited by
@George-K said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
What kind of bizarro hell world have we gotten into where @Axtremus has a firearm?
I reckon I could take him with my bow and arrow.
(That kind of bizarro hell world)
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@George-K said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
What kind of bizarro hell world have we gotten into where @Axtremus has a firearm?
I reckon I could take him with my bow and arrow.
(That kind of bizarro hell world)
wrote on 22 Feb 2022, 04:06 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
@George-K said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
What kind of bizarro hell world have we gotten into where @Axtremus has a firearm?
I reckon I could take him with my bow and arrow.
(That kind of bizarro hell world)
Doubt I could do it anymore, but I used to be able to shoot a half-dozen arrows at 50 yards and put them all in a basketball sized ring. Doubt I could still pull 70 pounds. On second thought, since they cracked my chest, no way, Jose.
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Glocks are great guns. They are simple and they work. They were one of the first pistols with polymer frames. The 21 has a capacity of around 13, IIRC. Lot of guys in bear country will carry almost the same gun, a model 20 in 10mm. Because of the polymer frame, the 21 is a fairly soft shooting .45.
Another classic .45 I like is the Sig P220. Louisiana State Police used to carry this weapon and they cried when they had to turn them in for .40 Glocks. The DA/SA trigger does have a learning curve, but they are truly dependable, quality firearms.
1911's? Old Slabsides? Pointing and trigger, trigger, trigger. SA, a good one can give you a four pound trigger with no creep and it's like breaking a glass rod. And since guys have been working on them so long, some custom shops will guarantee 3" at 50 yards or it doesn't leave the shop. You can spend what you want on a 1911. Something from a good maker like Colt, Kimber or Springfield Armory should come in at less than $1000, preferably closer to $809 for a working man's gun. colt will keep resale a tad higher, but not much. The custom shops? Ed Brown, Les Baer and Wilson Combat make some fine pistols. At fine prices. $3000+.
I listed the guns in order of ease of use. If you are used to striker fired, another maker's or the same maker's striker fired is less of a learning curve than DA/SA.
And a 1911? To do it right, it's a bit of a different world. I tend to carry that type of gun cocked and locked. Screw up under stress and no practice and you can hurt yourself while drawing and thumbing the safety off. If you want to be a 1911 guy, you commit to practice with a 1911.
Now, all of the above is a very short piece of opinion on a very huge and personal subject. Shoot what feels good to you, not me.
wrote on 22 Feb 2022, 04:11 last edited by@Jolly said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
Glocks are great guns. They are simple and they work. ...
And a 1911? To do it right, it's a bit of a different world. I tend to carry that type of gun cocked and locked. Screw up under stress and no practice and you can hurt yourself while drawing and thumbing the safety off. If you want to be a 1911 guy, you commit to practice with a 1911.
Thanks for that. I prefer simple, I like to have margins for errors, so from that perspective I lean towards the Glock. I almost ended up with a Glock 17 anyway when getting the 9mm, so I already view the Glock brand positively. I still want to do some side-by-side comparisons with real samples of Glock 21, Glock 41, and a few different brands of 1911 to get a better feel of things, but based on paper research, it looks like it would be simpler to just go with a Glock. :man-shrugging:
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wrote on 22 Feb 2022, 04:31 last edited by
Or any striker fired pistol with a system and trigger-type you are used to.
https://waltherarms.com/ppq-45/
https://shopsigsauerarms.com/sig-sauer-p320-carry-45-acp-striker-fired-pistol/
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp-m20?sku=11523&preselect=1
Most if the above come in full size and compact. All in what you want to do with it.
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OK, I'll go there and ask the question that no one has asked:
@Axtremus , why are you purchasing a firearm?
For sport? Personal protection? Something else?
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For curiosity. There is a body of knowledge around firearms, operating them is a skill. My general attitude is that it won’t hurt to accumulate more knowledge and develop more skills.
wrote on 22 Feb 2022, 14:39 last edited by@Axtremus said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
For curiosity.
Don't be too curious. From my admittedly layman's perspective, I believe that looking down the pointy end is typically a bad idea.
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wrote on 22 Feb 2022, 14:48 last edited by
Well, you started with the hardest firearm to master. Handgun proficiency under all conditions is difficult.
There are many things you can do with shotguns. Trap, skeet, sporting clays. Or rifles. Long distance, service rifle matches, etc.
Or shucks, if you become really bit by the bug, something like 3 Gun matches. If you like to revisit the Wild West, there's SASS...I was talking with a guy last night who competes with Colt SAA revolvers while riding on a horse.
Shucks, maybe we'll see Ax wielding a Benelli in a duck blind.
But whatever you do with firearms, be safe and have fun.
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wrote on 22 Feb 2022, 15:09 last edited by
I have no interest in buying guns for personal protection, but I must admit I quite fancy doing some target shooting. I used to love the archery, but I kept getting injured. I think I started it too late in life.
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wrote on 22 Feb 2022, 15:29 last edited by Klaus
I think I would possess a handgun if it were legal. Simply because I like well-designed mechanical things, and just in case anything FUBAR happens.
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Well, you started with the hardest firearm to master. Handgun proficiency under all conditions is difficult.
There are many things you can do with shotguns. Trap, skeet, sporting clays. Or rifles. Long distance, service rifle matches, etc.
Or shucks, if you become really bit by the bug, something like 3 Gun matches. If you like to revisit the Wild West, there's SASS...I was talking with a guy last night who competes with Colt SAA revolvers while riding on a horse.
Shucks, maybe we'll see Ax wielding a Benelli in a duck blind.
But whatever you do with firearms, be safe and have fun.
wrote on 22 Feb 2022, 16:03 last edited by@Jolly said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
But whatever you do with firearms, be safe and have fun.
Yes, I have the same plan in mind.
There is no deadline for me to learn this stuff, so if it takes me a longer while to learn to use different types of firearms, I am ok with that.
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@Jolly said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
But whatever you do with firearms, be safe and have fun.
Yes, I have the same plan in mind.
There is no deadline for me to learn this stuff, so if it takes me a longer while to learn to use different types of firearms, I am ok with that.
wrote on 22 Feb 2022, 16:17 last edited by@Axtremus Go big or go home. lol
Seriously though, I was way more accurate with my .22 pistol vs. the .45 ACP. The .38 Super was smack in the middle of both. Of course it had some major advantages over the .45 ACP. The 38 Super is what is known as a "Race Gun".
Compensated barrel, C-More Red Dot Finder, 28 round magazine.
Kimber Stainless II .45 ACP. This is an old photo. It has some nice carved wood handles on it now.
The ,38 Super "Race Gun"
They are both 1911s with the TRI .38 Super being a much more "modern" and tuned piece.
Been meaning to get a 9mm and of course a shotgun, I just never got around to it.
I've also been meaning to build an AR-15. Building things is always fun.
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@Axtremus Go big or go home. lol
Seriously though, I was way more accurate with my .22 pistol vs. the .45 ACP. The .38 Super was smack in the middle of both. Of course it had some major advantages over the .45 ACP. The 38 Super is what is known as a "Race Gun".
Compensated barrel, C-More Red Dot Finder, 28 round magazine.
Kimber Stainless II .45 ACP. This is an old photo. It has some nice carved wood handles on it now.
The ,38 Super "Race Gun"
They are both 1911s with the TRI .38 Super being a much more "modern" and tuned piece.
Been meaning to get a 9mm and of course a shotgun, I just never got around to it.
I've also been meaning to build an AR-15. Building things is always fun.
wrote on 22 Feb 2022, 16:30 last edited by@mark said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
I've also been meaning to build an AR-15. Building things is always fun.
Mark, there has to be some way for you to combine RC aircraft, VR goggles and firearms
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@Axtremus Go big or go home. lol
Seriously though, I was way more accurate with my .22 pistol vs. the .45 ACP. The .38 Super was smack in the middle of both. Of course it had some major advantages over the .45 ACP. The 38 Super is what is known as a "Race Gun".
Compensated barrel, C-More Red Dot Finder, 28 round magazine.
Kimber Stainless II .45 ACP. This is an old photo. It has some nice carved wood handles on it now.
The ,38 Super "Race Gun"
They are both 1911s with the TRI .38 Super being a much more "modern" and tuned piece.
Been meaning to get a 9mm and of course a shotgun, I just never got around to it.
I've also been meaning to build an AR-15. Building things is always fun.
wrote on 22 Feb 2022, 16:46 last edited by@mark said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
@Axtremus Go big or go home. lol
Seriously though, I was way more accurate with my .22 pistol vs. the .45 ACP. The .38 Super was smack in the middle of both. Of course it had some major advantages over the .45 ACP. The 38 Super is what is known as a "Race Gun".
Compensated barrel, C-More Red Dot Finder, 28 round magazine.
Kimber Stainless II .45 ACP. This is an old photo. It has some nice carved wood handles on it now.
The ,38 Super "Race Gun"
They are both 1911s with the TRI .38 Super being a much more "modern" and tuned piece.
Been meaning to get a 9mm and of course a shotgun, I just never got around to it.
I've also been meaning to build an AR-15. Building things is always fun.
Nice pistol. I reckon you were doing competitive shooting back when .38 Super would allow you to make major?
If you don't want to spend a bunch of money and want something to play around with, Palmetto State Armory will occasionally sell their blem kits at a reasonable price. Most of the time, the blemishes are pretty hard to find. Check 'em out.
Alternatively, a nice inexpensive AR is the S&W sporter. It will do for starters and then you can work your way up as you wish.
I mentioned 3-gun. I bet you'd enjoy that...