Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?
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It looks as though Ax has been hacked by right wing extremists.
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Seriously, many, many trees have been killed and many electrons have been wasted in this endless debate, by everybody from dedicated operators to armchair cowboys.
Here's the skinny... .45ACP is more lethal, but...Most people do not shoot it as well as the 9x19.
.38spl +P and 9mm are about the largest cartridges that most people who don't shoot a lot, can maintain basic proficiency with. With polymer frame pistols, the 9 can fit into a shootable, small platform that is concealable with decent capacity. Most armed encounters follow the 3-3-3 rule...3 shots, 3 seconds, 3 yards. It's going to be quick, nasty, most likely in low light and bullet placement counts as much or more than caliber.
If you're looking at nightstand guns, bigger frame is better. Anybody tends to shoot full size frames more accurately. And in a 9, you might have 17 rounds in a mag. In carry pistols, there's a ton of stuff available, with the Hellcat being a personal favorite.
If you do shoot a lot, are good with pistols and are looking for a house gun, the 1911 45ACP does have a huge following, mostly because of the wonderful trigger. I shot a custom 1911 a few years ago, that I had to work to shoot bigger than two inch groups at 25 yards. But it was heavy and held 7 rounds.
Bottom line? Buy a 9 that fits the desired purpose and that you can shoot well. Feed it ammo with very good performance. And pray you never have to use it.
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Using guns ...
Ergonomics are everything in a handgun. Any of them will shoot minute-of-dead.
Had a buddy who was one of the best pistol shots I've ever seen. Not only was he accurate, his draw was very fast and precise.
I guess he was pretty good...He had killed two men in gunfights. His contention was that the gun had to point well enough at anything less than 20 feet, that sites were superfluous. If you took time to line up front and rear sites, you were dead.
It's all about point and pull, with the front site being barely used and the rear site none at all.
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Look across the room and pick out something about the size of a basketball. Close your eyes, draw and aim (empty gun of course).
Open your eyes and without moving the gun look through the sites. If you're not on target, you've got the wrong gun.
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Look across the room and pick out something about the size of a basketball. Close your eyes, draw and aim (empty gun of course).
Open your eyes and without moving the gun look through the sites. If you're not on target, you've got the wrong gun.
@Jolly said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
Look across the room and pick out something about the size of a basketball.
My room-mate's head, for example?
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My advice: If you want to threaten somebody to blow his or her head clean off, stop an approaching car, or ask a thug if he feels lucky, get the .45.
Link to video -
@Klaus, FWIW, my 9mm is a Warther. Not sure how popular Walther is in Germany, but it is German made. I chose the Walther over a Glock simply because I feel that the Walther fits my grip better.
@Jolly, thank you for sharing your expertise and perspective on the 9mm v. .45 question. FWIW, whatever little experience I have, it certainly jives with your comment about most people not shooting the .45 as well as the 9mm. I have been thinking about adding a .45 just to expand my horizon a little bit. I have shot a Glock 21 and a 1911 before, but on different days. So I do not retain a good sense of how they compare. As such, I would appreciate it if you can elaborate a bit on what you mean by the 1911’s “wonderful trigger.” I mean, how is it “wonderful” when compared to a Glock or another .45 option that presumably is not as wonderful? Might you have an opinion on the Glock 21? I have also learnt that there are many different brands/makes for 1911. Unfortunately I cannot recall which specific brand/make of 1911 I shot. If I were to look into the 1911 further, are their specific brands of 1911 you’d recommend that I look into? If I were to find another opportunity to shoot a Glock 21 and a 1911 in the same session, what aspects of the shooting would you recommend that I pay attention to to get a better sense of how the two compare?
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What kind of bizarro hell world have we gotten into where @Axtremus has a firearm?
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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Glocks are great guns. They are simple and they work. They were one of the first pistols with polymer frames. The 21 has a capacity of around 13, IIRC. Lot of guys in bear country will carry almost the same gun, a model 20 in 10mm. Because of the polymer frame, the 21 is a fairly soft shooting .45.
Another classic .45 I like is the Sig P220. Louisiana State Police used to carry this weapon and they cried when they had to turn them in for .40 Glocks. The DA/SA trigger does have a learning curve, but they are truly dependable, quality firearms.
1911's? Old Slabsides? Pointing and trigger, trigger, trigger. SA, a good one can give you a four pound trigger with no creep and it's like breaking a glass rod. And since guys have been working on them so long, some custom shops will guarantee 3" at 50 yards or it doesn't leave the shop. You can spend what you want on a 1911. Something from a good maker like Colt, Kimber or Springfield Armory should come in at less than $1000, preferably closer to $809 for a working man's gun. colt will keep resale a tad higher, but not much. The custom shops? Ed Brown, Les Baer and Wilson Combat make some fine pistols. At fine prices. $3000+.
I listed the guns in order of ease of use. If you are used to striker fired, another maker's or the same maker's striker fired is less of a learning curve than DA/SA.
And a 1911? To do it right, it's a bit of a different world. I tend to carry that type of gun cocked and locked. Screw up under stress and no practice and you can hurt yourself while drawing and thumbing the safety off. If you want to be a 1911 guy, you commit to practice with a 1911.
Now, all of the above is a very short piece of opinion on a very huge and personal subject. Shoot what feels good to you, not me.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@Klaus, FWIW, my 9mm is a Warther. Not sure how popular Walther is in Germany, but it is German made. I chose the Walther over a Glock simply because I feel that the Walther fits my grip better.
@Jolly, thank you for sharing your expertise and perspective on the 9mm v. .45 question. FWIW, whatever little experience I have, it certainly jives with your comment about most people not shooting the .45 as well as the 9mm. I have been thinking about adding a .45 just to expand my horizon a little bit. I have shot a Glock 21 and a 1911 before, but on different days. So I do not retain a good sense of how they compare. As such, I would appreciate it if you can elaborate a bit on what you mean by the 1911’s “wonderful trigger.” I mean, how is it “wonderful” when compared to a Glock or another .45 option that presumably is not as wonderful? Might you have an opinion on the Glock 21? I have also learnt that there are many different brands/makes for 1911. Unfortunately I cannot recall which specific brand/make of 1911 I shot. If I were to look into the 1911 further, are their specific brands of 1911 you’d recommend that I look into? If I were to find another opportunity to shoot a Glock 21 and a 1911 in the same session, what aspects of the shooting would you recommend that I pay attention to to get a better sense of how the two compare?
@Axtremus said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
@Klaus, FWIW, my 9mm is a Warther. Not sure how popular Walther is in Germany, but it is German made. I chose the Walther over a Glock simply because I feel that the Walther fits my grip better.
I didn't know Walthers were limp wristed....
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@George-K said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
What kind of bizarro hell world have we gotten into where @Axtremus has a firearm?
I reckon I could take him with my bow and arrow.
(That kind of bizarro hell world)
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@George-K said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
What kind of bizarro hell world have we gotten into where @Axtremus has a firearm?
I reckon I could take him with my bow and arrow.
(That kind of bizarro hell world)
@Doctor-Phibes said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
@George-K said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
What kind of bizarro hell world have we gotten into where @Axtremus has a firearm?
I reckon I could take him with my bow and arrow.
(That kind of bizarro hell world)
Doubt I could do it anymore, but I used to be able to shoot a half-dozen arrows at 50 yards and put them all in a basketball sized ring. Doubt I could still pull 70 pounds. On second thought, since they cracked my chest, no way, Jose.
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Glocks are great guns. They are simple and they work. They were one of the first pistols with polymer frames. The 21 has a capacity of around 13, IIRC. Lot of guys in bear country will carry almost the same gun, a model 20 in 10mm. Because of the polymer frame, the 21 is a fairly soft shooting .45.
Another classic .45 I like is the Sig P220. Louisiana State Police used to carry this weapon and they cried when they had to turn them in for .40 Glocks. The DA/SA trigger does have a learning curve, but they are truly dependable, quality firearms.
1911's? Old Slabsides? Pointing and trigger, trigger, trigger. SA, a good one can give you a four pound trigger with no creep and it's like breaking a glass rod. And since guys have been working on them so long, some custom shops will guarantee 3" at 50 yards or it doesn't leave the shop. You can spend what you want on a 1911. Something from a good maker like Colt, Kimber or Springfield Armory should come in at less than $1000, preferably closer to $809 for a working man's gun. colt will keep resale a tad higher, but not much. The custom shops? Ed Brown, Les Baer and Wilson Combat make some fine pistols. At fine prices. $3000+.
I listed the guns in order of ease of use. If you are used to striker fired, another maker's or the same maker's striker fired is less of a learning curve than DA/SA.
And a 1911? To do it right, it's a bit of a different world. I tend to carry that type of gun cocked and locked. Screw up under stress and no practice and you can hurt yourself while drawing and thumbing the safety off. If you want to be a 1911 guy, you commit to practice with a 1911.
Now, all of the above is a very short piece of opinion on a very huge and personal subject. Shoot what feels good to you, not me.
@Jolly said in Hey Jolly, 9mm Luger vs. .45 ACP, what do you think?:
Glocks are great guns. They are simple and they work. ...
And a 1911? To do it right, it's a bit of a different world. I tend to carry that type of gun cocked and locked. Screw up under stress and no practice and you can hurt yourself while drawing and thumbing the safety off. If you want to be a 1911 guy, you commit to practice with a 1911.
Thanks for that. I prefer simple, I like to have margins for errors, so from that perspective I lean towards the Glock. I almost ended up with a Glock 17 anyway when getting the 9mm, so I already view the Glock brand positively. I still want to do some side-by-side comparisons with real samples of Glock 21, Glock 41, and a few different brands of 1911 to get a better feel of things, but based on paper research, it looks like it would be simpler to just go with a Glock. :man-shrugging:
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Or any striker fired pistol with a system and trigger-type you are used to.
https://waltherarms.com/ppq-45/
https://shopsigsauerarms.com/sig-sauer-p320-carry-45-acp-striker-fired-pistol/
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp-m20?sku=11523&preselect=1
Most if the above come in full size and compact. All in what you want to do with it.
