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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Issues with the IHME model.

Issues with the IHME model.

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  • George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #3

    It would be interesting to follow the changes in the IHME projections over time. Last week they were predicting about 82K deaths by August. That ticked up to 91K over the weekend.

    This morning it's about 82K again.

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • L Offline
      L Offline
      Loki
      wrote on last edited by
      #4

      IHME generally lowered their projections across the board. Feels like Bill Gates got an early view. NY is down a lot in particular.

      Comparing some other screenshots I took as we speak.

      Their model was down for 5 days, I thought there must have been a big flaw so I was surprised that the revisions went in the direction they did.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • George KG Offline
        George KG Offline
        George K
        wrote on last edited by
        #5

        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by
          #6

          THey actually moved NY's peak earlier by a day.

          They now say RESOURCE use will peak Wednesday.

          Seems like we already know for sure that isn't true, since it must lag peak case count by a considerable amount of time - weeks perhaps.

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by
            #7

            Active cases in Italy are still growing by 3k per day. That's (new cases - recoveries).

            But NY resource utilization will peak in 48 hours?

            Screen Shot 2020-04-06 at 11.50.01 AM.png

            Only non-witches get due process.

            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nyc
              wrote on last edited by
              #8

              Yet look at NY vs Italy cases on a log scale. We're going to peak in 2 days and they haven't peaked yet?

              alt text

              Only non-witches get due process.

              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
              1 Reply Last reply
              • markM Offline
                markM Offline
                mark
                wrote on last edited by
                #9

                wow. that is not looking good. Seattle looks like they are improving though so there is that,

                1 Reply Last reply
                • L Offline
                  L Offline
                  Loki
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #10

                  Cuomo just announced that new hospitalizations are down in the state.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • LuFins DadL Offline
                    LuFins DadL Offline
                    LuFins Dad
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #11

                    8 weeks ago I predicted that at the end of this, those that were very concerned about this would be saying I told you so. I also predicted that those that said this isn’t that bad and we’re overreacting would be able to say the same. I stand by those predictions.

                    The Brad

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • George KG Offline
                      George KG Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #12

                      https://www.sydney.edu.au/data-science/

                      n international group of statisticians from CTDS, Northwestern University and the University of Texas have released a paper (pdf, 2.5MB) investigating the predictive performance of the model developed by Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME). The IHME model is is used to predict ventilator use, hospital bed requirements and other resourcing for US states response to COVID-19.

                      The key findings are:

                      • Over 70 percent of US states had death rates that were inconsistent with IHME predictions

                      • Ability of IHME model to make accurate predictions decreases with increasing amount of data

                      • Improved predictive modelling needed for adequate provision of ventilators, PPE, medical staff at a local level

                      PDF here: https://www.sydney.edu.au/content/dam/corporate/documents/centre-for-translational-data-sience/statistical_accuracy_covid19_predictions_ihme_model.pdf

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • George KG Offline
                        George KG Offline
                        George K
                        wrote on last edited by George K
                        #13

                        More problems with the model

                        A widely followed model for projecting Covid-19 deaths in the U.S. is producing results that have been bouncing up and down like an unpredictable fever, and now epidemiologists are criticizing it as flawed and misleading for both the public and policy makers. In particular, they warn against relying on it as the basis for government decision-making, including on “re-opening America.”

                        “It’s not a model that most of us in the infectious disease epidemiology field think is well suited” to projecting Covid-19 deaths, epidemiologist Marc Lipsitch of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health told reporters this week, referring to projections by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington.

                        Others experts, including some colleagues of the model-makers, are even harsher. “That the IHME model keeps changing is evidence of its lack of reliability as a predictive tool,” said epidemiologist Ruth Etzioni of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Center, home to several of the researchers who created the model, and who has served on a search committee for IHME. “That it is being used for policy decisions and its results interpreted wrongly is a travesty unfolding before our eyes.”

                        The IHME projections were used by the Trump administration in developing national guidelines to mitigate the outbreak. Now, they are reportedly influencing White House thinking on how and when to “re-open” the country, as President Trump announced a blueprint for on Thursday.

                        The chief reason the IHME projections worry some experts, Etzioni said, is that “the fact that they overshot” — initially projecting up to 240,000 U.S. deaths, compared with fewer than 70,000 now — “will be used to suggest that the government response prevented an even greater catastrophe, when in fact the predictions were shaky in the first place.”

                        That could produce misplaced confidence in the effectiveness of the social distancing policies, which in turn could produce complacency about what might be needed to keep the epidemic from blowing up again.

                        Believing, for instance, that measures well short of what China imposed in and around Wuhan prevented a four-fold higher death toll could be disastrous.

                        The most notable bounces in the IHME projections have been for the eventual total of U.S. deaths by early August, which is when many epidemiologists believe the outbreak will be tailing off. (Many expect daily deaths in the U.S. to fall to 10 or fewer by early June, from 2,000 or so in April.) Death projections for individual states have also fluctuated significantly.

                        More interesting stuff later in the article.

                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                        L 1 Reply Last reply
                        • George KG George K

                          More problems with the model

                          A widely followed model for projecting Covid-19 deaths in the U.S. is producing results that have been bouncing up and down like an unpredictable fever, and now epidemiologists are criticizing it as flawed and misleading for both the public and policy makers. In particular, they warn against relying on it as the basis for government decision-making, including on “re-opening America.”

                          “It’s not a model that most of us in the infectious disease epidemiology field think is well suited” to projecting Covid-19 deaths, epidemiologist Marc Lipsitch of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health told reporters this week, referring to projections by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington.

                          Others experts, including some colleagues of the model-makers, are even harsher. “That the IHME model keeps changing is evidence of its lack of reliability as a predictive tool,” said epidemiologist Ruth Etzioni of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Center, home to several of the researchers who created the model, and who has served on a search committee for IHME. “That it is being used for policy decisions and its results interpreted wrongly is a travesty unfolding before our eyes.”

                          The IHME projections were used by the Trump administration in developing national guidelines to mitigate the outbreak. Now, they are reportedly influencing White House thinking on how and when to “re-open” the country, as President Trump announced a blueprint for on Thursday.

                          The chief reason the IHME projections worry some experts, Etzioni said, is that “the fact that they overshot” — initially projecting up to 240,000 U.S. deaths, compared with fewer than 70,000 now — “will be used to suggest that the government response prevented an even greater catastrophe, when in fact the predictions were shaky in the first place.”

                          That could produce misplaced confidence in the effectiveness of the social distancing policies, which in turn could produce complacency about what might be needed to keep the epidemic from blowing up again.

                          Believing, for instance, that measures well short of what China imposed in and around Wuhan prevented a four-fold higher death toll could be disastrous.

                          The most notable bounces in the IHME projections have been for the eventual total of U.S. deaths by early August, which is when many epidemiologists believe the outbreak will be tailing off. (Many expect daily deaths in the U.S. to fall to 10 or fewer by early June, from 2,000 or so in April.) Death projections for individual states have also fluctuated significantly.

                          More interesting stuff later in the article.

                          L Offline
                          L Offline
                          Loki
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #14

                          No update since April 13. They said they would update on April 15. Curious.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • LuFins DadL Offline
                            LuFins DadL Offline
                            LuFins Dad
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #15

                            Please, it's not like the model was so bad that college dropout piano pimps were pointing out flaws... Oh, wait..

                            The Brad

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • L Offline
                              L Offline
                              Loki
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #16

                              IHME has been updated.

                              George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                              • L Loki

                                IHME has been updated.

                                George KG Offline
                                George KG Offline
                                George K
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #17

                                @Loki said in Issues with the IHME model.:

                                IHME has been updated.

                                "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                L 1 Reply Last reply
                                • George KG George K

                                  @Loki said in Issues with the IHME model.:

                                  IHME has been updated.

                                  L Offline
                                  L Offline
                                  Loki
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #18

                                  @George-K said in Issues with the IHME model.:

                                  @Loki said in Issues with the IHME model.:

                                  IHME has been updated.

                                  Florida should not be ignored just because it is inconvenient politically. Who cares if the GOP was “asleep the wheel” and didn’t apply the social distancing as coronavirus as spreading rapidly.There is real information in a different result that we can learn from.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • George KG Offline
                                    George KG Offline
                                    George K
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #19

                                    IHME is now predicting 74K deaths by Aug 4.

                                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                    jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #20

                                      I think we’ll only see that low a number if there’s significant seasonality in transmission.

                                      Only non-witches get due process.

                                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • George KG George K

                                        IHME is now predicting 74K deaths by Aug 4.

                                        jon-nycJ Offline
                                        jon-nycJ Offline
                                        jon-nyc
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #21

                                        @George-K said in Issues with the IHME model.:

                                        IHME is now predicting 74K deaths by Aug 4.

                                        We'll hit that number in May.

                                        Only non-witches get due process.

                                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                        George KG jon-nycJ 2 Replies Last reply
                                        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                          @George-K said in Issues with the IHME model.:

                                          IHME is now predicting 74K deaths by Aug 4.

                                          We'll hit that number in May.

                                          George KG Offline
                                          George KG Offline
                                          George K
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #22

                                          @jon-nyc yup.

                                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

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