At school in Vegas
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@jolly said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@aqua-letifer said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
What would be the right policy for something like this?
If you are the school administrator, the district's superintendent, or the state's secretary of education, what policy would you put out to advise staff (school employees) and students on what to do if they were to witness something like this?
Annnnnnd that's exactly why you'd watch it happen like they did.
The inability to articulate a coherent policy leads to inaction.
Take it closer to home, forget about being an administrator or superintendent, just take your position simply as a parent with kids in the school. What would you, as a parent, tell your own child what to do if/when she sees something like this in her class?
What would you tell them?
I'm waiting...
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@jolly said in At school in Vegas:
@jolly said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@aqua-letifer said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
What would be the right policy for something like this?
If you are the school administrator, the district's superintendent, or the state's secretary of education, what policy would you put out to advise staff (school employees) and students on what to do if they were to witness something like this?
Annnnnnd that's exactly why you'd watch it happen like they did.
The inability to articulate a coherent policy leads to inaction.
Take it closer to home, forget about being an administrator or superintendent, just take your position simply as a parent with kids in the school. What would you, as a parent, tell your own child what to do if/when she sees something like this in her class?
What would you tell them?
I'm waiting...
Yeah, Ax can go, then I will.
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I can tell you what Ax would do. Ax would have sat there on his ass and watched it, thankful that it wasn't him getting hit. Later on, he would tell you why the girl who did the beating was the real victim, her aggression caused by some conservative, Republican failure to enact some democrat policy.
The teacher should have picked up a chair and knocked the cold shit out of the girl doing it.
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@aqua-letifer said in At school in Vegas:
@jolly said in At school in Vegas:
@jolly said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@aqua-letifer said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
What would be the right policy for something like this?
If you are the school administrator, the district's superintendent, or the state's secretary of education, what policy would you put out to advise staff (school employees) and students on what to do if they were to witness something like this?
Annnnnnd that's exactly why you'd watch it happen like they did.
The inability to articulate a coherent policy leads to inaction.
Take it closer to home, forget about being an administrator or superintendent, just take your position simply as a parent with kids in the school. What would you, as a parent, tell your own child what to do if/when she sees something like this in her class?
What would you tell them?
I'm waiting...
Yeah, Ax can go, then I will.
This is what I would tell them:
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If there is no school staff member (legal adult) in the room, go get a school staff member (make your way to the principal’s office, alert the first staff member you encounter along the way).
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If there is a school staff member (legal adult) in the room, let that staff member handle it.
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If you are not happy with how the school staff member is handling it, go get another school staff member (make your way to the principal’s office, alert the first staff member you encounter along the way).
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(Depending on policy/guidelines issued by the state, the district, or the school, I reserve me right to revise what I would tell the kids to work within those policy/guidelines.)
Now you folks (@Jolly, @Aqua-Letifer, @Larry, etc.) go ahead and tell me what you, if you take the position of a parent, would tell your own kid to deal with something like this if your kid were to witness it in his/her class.
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@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@aqua-letifer said in At school in Vegas:
@jolly said in At school in Vegas:
@jolly said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@aqua-letifer said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
What would be the right policy for something like this?
If you are the school administrator, the district's superintendent, or the state's secretary of education, what policy would you put out to advise staff (school employees) and students on what to do if they were to witness something like this?
Annnnnnd that's exactly why you'd watch it happen like they did.
The inability to articulate a coherent policy leads to inaction.
Take it closer to home, forget about being an administrator or superintendent, just take your position simply as a parent with kids in the school. What would you, as a parent, tell your own child what to do if/when she sees something like this in her class?
What would you tell them?
I'm waiting...
Yeah, Ax can go, then I will.
This is what I would tell them:
-
If there is no school staff member (legal adult) in the room, go get a school staff member (make your way to the principal’s office, alert the first staff member you encounter along the way).
-
If there is a school staff member (legal adult) in the room, let that staff member handle it.
-
If you are not happy with how the school staff member is handling it, go get another school staff member (make your way to the principal’s office, alert the first staff member you encounter along the way).
-
(Depending on policy/guidelines issued by the state, the district, or the school, I reserve me right to revise what I would tell the kids to work within those policy/guidelines.)
Now you folks (@Jolly, @Aqua-Letifer, @Larry, etc.) go ahead and tell me what you, if you take the position of a parent, would tell your own kid to deal with something like this if your kid were to witness it in his/her class.
Using your method, by the time you got someone to come in and put a stop to it the victim would already have had the shit kicked out of her.
What would I tell my kid? Exactly the same thing I told them when they were in school - don't start anything, but if someone else does, you finish it.
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That's what I taught my daughter. Don't start anything, but if it happens, you take any step necessary to stop the attack, rendering your attacker unable or unwilling to continue. If that means smashing their head in with whatever is available, have at it. We will deal with the consequences later.
But this bullshit we teach kids now about you should never ever fight is destructive.
"My pronouns are FA/FO." - Mik, 2024
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@mik said in At school in Vegas:
… if it happens, you take any step necessary to stop the attack, rendering your attacker unable or unwilling to continue. …
Not sure if you were responding to my question. On the off chance that you were, I would say that you have misunderstood my question. My question asks what you would tell your kid to do if she were witnessing an incident like this in her class, not as one being attacked. Please feel free to provide your answer, if you wish, for the scenario where your kid is a bystander witnessing the incident in her class, your kid herself is not the one being attacked.
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@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@mik said in At school in Vegas:
… if it happens, you take any step necessary to stop the attack, rendering your attacker unable or unwilling to continue. …
Not sure if you were responding to my question. On the off chance that you were, I would say that you have misunderstood my question. My question asks what you would tell your kid to do if she were witnessing an incident like this in her class, not as one being attacked. Please feel free to provide your answer, if you wish, for the scenario where your kid is a bystander witnessing the incident in her class, your kid herself is not the one being attacked.
He did. Answer your question. It doesnt matter if his (or my) kid is the one being attacked or if it's some other kid. If his (or my) kid sees it happening, beat the shit out of the attacker. Finish it. Bring. It. To. An. End.
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@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@aqua-letifer said in At school in Vegas:
@jolly said in At school in Vegas:
@jolly said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@aqua-letifer said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
What would be the right policy for something like this?
If you are the school administrator, the district's superintendent, or the state's secretary of education, what policy would you put out to advise staff (school employees) and students on what to do if they were to witness something like this?
Annnnnnd that's exactly why you'd watch it happen like they did.
The inability to articulate a coherent policy leads to inaction.
Take it closer to home, forget about being an administrator or superintendent, just take your position simply as a parent with kids in the school. What would you, as a parent, tell your own child what to do if/when she sees something like this in her class?
What would you tell them?
I'm waiting...
Yeah, Ax can go, then I will.
This is what I would tell them:
-
If there is no school staff member (legal adult) in the room, go get a school staff member (make your way to the principal’s office, alert the first staff member you encounter along the way).
-
If there is a school staff member (legal adult) in the room, let that staff member handle it.
-
If you are not happy with how the school staff member is handling it, go get another school staff member (make your way to the principal’s office, alert the first staff member you encounter along the way).
-
(Depending on policy/guidelines issued by the state, the district, or the school, I reserve me right to revise what I would tell the kids to work within those policy/guidelines.)
Now you folks (@Jolly, @Aqua-Letifer, @Larry, etc.) go ahead and tell me what you, if you take the position of a parent, would tell your own kid to deal with something like this if your kid were to witness it in his/her class.
You know what's funny? It occurred to me watching this that this very thing happened to me in high school. This precise scenario. We had to bring crap in to class for shop that day. I brought in my stuff, Jamie didn't. Teacher wasn't in the room, so Jamie marked me and wailed on me until I relented and gave him my stuff. Jamie's in prison now as he graduated to career criminal but by the way, even in high school he was a shitload bigger than this girl and he knew how to hit people.
Nobody came to my rescue, there wasn't an adult, everyone saw it and nothing happened to him. That's public school, sometimes, motherfuckers. I think back on my childhood a lot, but this particular memory doesn't really bring with it too many emotions. Jamie was a bad guy, the world has bad guys in them and these things sometimes happen. Also, I balanced the scorecard in ways I found acceptable, so there were no hard feelings. More on that in a second.
My parents taught me the same tired bullshit a lot of kids are taught today: under no circumstances, do not fight anybody, ever. If you do, you're wrong, no matter the scenario. And not only that, but I was one skinny kid with no street sense about me whastosever. I couldn't throw a punch to save my life back then and if I'm honest, I listened to my parents and so punch-throwing honestly didn't occur to me. It's precisely why Jamie picked me out of the class! I wish I could sound cooler or something, but I just wasn't like that. I did things in my own way. I waited until we finished the assignment, hung around in school for a long while after classes ended—I walked home so no big—went back into the classroom and trashed Jamie's assignment. I kept the pieces there so whoever found it would know it was destroyed, not just stolen. I honestly forget what happened after that, assignment-wise.
But when Jamie got his license, a lot of things happened to his car. And he didn't like being called a fatass so diet and exercise brochures and pictures of huge people kept finding their way into his locker on the regular until we graduated.
Ax, your advice is for when a kid puts gum under his table, it's ridiculous for a scenario like this.
I'm going to be telling my daughter a lot of things as she's growing up that would be directly applicable here. A lot of things about right and wrong, about rules and procedures, and about the times in which someone has to step up because there is no adult vs. getting hurt or killed because you tried to play the hero. After school these situations get very complicated. But for a school situation, I'm going to be telling her something similar to what mik and Larry said. In school, you see that sort of shit, you don't wait for a fucking adult, you stop it.
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@larry said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@mik said in At school in Vegas:
… if it happens, you take any step necessary to stop the attack, rendering your attacker unable or unwilling to continue. …
Not sure if you were responding to my question. On the off chance that you were, I would say that you have misunderstood my question. My question asks what you would tell your kid to do if she were witnessing an incident like this in her class, not as one being attacked. Please feel free to provide your answer, if you wish, for the scenario where your kid is a bystander witnessing the incident in her class, your kid herself is not the one being attacked.
He did. Answer your question. It doesnt matter if his (or my) kid is the one being attacked or if it's some other kid. If his (or my) kid sees it happening, beat the shit out of the attacker. Finish it. Bring. It. To. An. End.
Do let @Mik speak for himself. @Mik's previous answer uses the term "your attacker," which suggests that he assumes that his kid is the one being attacked. @Mik can speak for himself if he wishes.
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@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
Now you folks (@Jolly, @Aqua-Letifer, @Larry, etc.) go ahead and tell me what you, if you take the position of a parent, would tell your own kid to deal with something like this if your kid were to witness it in his/her class.
Fire at least one shot in the air to make sure the attacker understands the situation.
If the attacker continues, put a couple into her kneecaps, that should discourage her.
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@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@larry said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
@mik said in At school in Vegas:
… if it happens, you take any step necessary to stop the attack, rendering your attacker unable or unwilling to continue. …
Not sure if you were responding to my question. On the off chance that you were, I would say that you have misunderstood my question. My question asks what you would tell your kid to do if she were witnessing an incident like this in her class, not as one being attacked. Please feel free to provide your answer, if you wish, for the scenario where your kid is a bystander witnessing the incident in her class, your kid herself is not the one being attacked.
He did. Answer your question. It doesnt matter if his (or my) kid is the one being attacked or if it's some other kid. If his (or my) kid sees it happening, beat the shit out of the attacker. Finish it. Bring. It. To. An. End.
Do let @Mik speak for himself. @Mik's previous answer uses the term "your attacker," which suggests that he assumes that his kid is the one being attacked. @Mik can speak for himself if he wishes.
Where did I say Mik couldn't speak for himself? If you weren't so fucking screwed up you wouldn't have needed anyone to answer your question in the first place.
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My kids? What do I know? My kids, both the boy and the girl, cold-cocked another kid that would not leave them alone. Like Mik, my kids were taught to not start fights, but when one starts, you finish it. And finish it, they did...In my daughter's case, she knocked out a guy, not another girl.
My kids were also taught not to get in the middle of a fair fight, but you don't let other kids get ganged up on or beaten. Sometimes, that means getting an adult to intervene. Sometimes, it means stopping something from happening. Again, when that Rubicon is crossed, there is no such thing as a fair fight. It's Al Davis rules at that point.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
Yeah, I had three guys - none of which weighed under two hundred pounds - try to stuff me in a toilet. It didn't happen.
And the first opportunity I got, I picked up a 32" Louisville Slugger and we had a Come To Jesus moment in the middle of a locker room. You want to fight me fair, and I'll take my whippin' with as much grace as I can muster. Lord knows, I got enough of them and seven chipped teeth to show for my trouble.
You gang up on me and I'll do whatever it takes to break every bone in your fucking body and spit in your face as I walk over you.
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@jolly said in At school in Vegas:
My kids were also taught not to get in the middle of a fair fight, but you don't let other kids get ganged up on or beaten. Sometimes, that means getting an adult to intervene. Sometimes, it means stopping something from happening. Again, when that Rubicon is crossed, there is no such thing as a fair fight. It's Al Davis rules at that point.
Kindly help me understand a couple of things; what do you mean by the “Rubicon,” and what do you mean by “Al Davis rules”?
Specific to the incident as shown in the video referenced in the opening post, would you consider that “a fair fight” (it is, after all, one on one, with both parties being roughly the same age)? If not, what would you have your kids do in that particular situation?
Thank you, @Aqua-Letifer and @Larry and @Copper for your answers. I will address them after I get some clarification from @Jolly (and @Mik, if he cares to clarify).
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cross the Rubicon
Irrevocably commit to a course of action, make a fateful and final decision. For example, Once he submitted his resignation, he had crossed the Rubicon. This phrase alludes to Julius Caesar's crossing the Rubicon River (between Italy and Gaul) in 49 b.c., thereby starting a war against Pompey and the Roman Senate. Recounted in Plutarch's Lives: Julius Caesar (c. a.d. 110), the crossing gave rise to the figurative English usage by the early 1600s.Al Davis rules? Just win, baby!
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Now I am going to address @Aqua-Letifer’s answer (then get to @Copper and @Jolly and @Larry’s answers in turn).
@Aqua-Letifer: ”A lot of things about right and wrong, about rules and procedures, and about the times in which someone has to step up because there is no adult vs. getting hurt or killed because you tried to play the hero. After school these situations get very complicated.”
This, I appreciate, it shows that you recognize the complexity.
@Aqua-Letifer: ”But for a school situation, I'm going to be telling her something similar to what mik and Larry said. In school, you see that sort of shit, you don't wait for a fucking adult, you stop it.”
Two problems with this:
- Insufficiently prescriptive for school age children/teenagers. “Stop it”? How? To the point of staking your own life on it, or to some lesser degree?
- The underlying assumption that your kid has the capability to “stop it,” without qualification. This may not be true.
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@copper said in At school in Vegas:
@axtremus said in At school in Vegas:
Now you folks (@Jolly, @Aqua-Letifer, @Larry, etc.) go ahead and tell me what you, if you take the position of a parent, would tell your own kid to deal with something like this if your kid were to witness it in his/her class.
Fire at least one shot in the air to make sure the attacker understands the situation.
If the attacker continues, put a couple into her kneecaps, that should discourage her.
One problem with this is the assumption that your kid will have the bigger firepower (and the corresponding ability to effectively deploy the firepower). This may not be true. When this is not true, escalating the issue becomes dangerous to your kid.
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@jolly said in At school in Vegas:
My kids were also taught not to get in the middle of a fair fight, but you don't let other kids get ganged up on or beaten.
Ok, I appreciate the nuance there, you steer clear of other people’s “fair fights,” however that “fairness” is judged.
Sometimes, that means getting an adult to intervene.
OK, that one is consistent with my answer, no argument there.
Sometimes, it means stopping something from happening.
Does not seem sufficiently prescriptive for school age children/teenagers, but I suppose we can dig deeper into this is you care to.
Again, when that Rubicon is crossed, there is no such thing as a fair fight. It's Al Davis rules at that point.
Makes sense if your kid is the one being attacked since self-defense would then become a necessity. Otherwise that has the same problem with @Copper’s answer — the assumption that your kid has the bigger fists. If your kid started of being a by-standing witness to a physical altercation, whether to “cross the Rubicon” for your kid is up to your kid — whether to intervene in someone else’s fight. Cannot say I see a clear answer from you yet about whether you want your kid to intervene in the sort of situation as shown in the video.
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