BLM gets you a lower sentence for felony murder
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They even say "mostly peaceful..."
https://alphanews.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Montez-Lee-Sentencing-Opinion.pdf
As part of that unrest, on May 28, Mr. Lee and others broke into the Max It Pawn Shop located at 2726 East Lake Street. Mr. Lee poured fire accelerant around the pawn shop and lit it on fire. The subsequent fire destroyed the business.
On June 8, 2020, ATF Special Agent Certified Fire Investigators received three videos from the arson of the Max It Pawn.
The first video begins with people looting the Max It Pawn. Then a masked man, later identified as Mr. Lee, is shown pouring liquid out from a metal container throughout the pawn store. The video then cuts to outside the pawn shop, which is now on fire. Mr. Lee is shown, now not wearing a shirt, holding his fist up. The man taking the video exclaims “Oh, shit—you really did it!”
The second video begins with the man identified as Mr. Le standing in front of the pawn shop as it is in flames The individual filming asks Mr. Lee “What you do, Tez?” Mr. Lee responds “Fuck this place. We’re gonna burn this bitch down.”
The third video begins with a group of men, including the man identified as Mr. Lee, joking about restaurants they are going to “hit” next. It then cuts to a recording of a cell phone showing the looting of the pawn shop.
On June 5, 2020, a man named Oscar Lee Stewart, 30, was reported missing to the Burnsville Police Department by his mother. Mr. Stewart’s mother reported that she had not seen her son since May 28, 2020. Investigators learned that Mr. Stewart’s vehicle had been found near the Max It Pawn.
On July 20, 2020, authorities located Mr. Stewart’s body in the rubble of the Max It Pawn.Here's where it gets good:
The resulting Guideline range would be 235–293 month’s imprisonment. (PSR ¶ 78.) Because this exceeds the statutory maximum term of 240 months, the Guideline range is 235–240 months’ imprisonment.
Pursuant to these factors, the United States requests the Court sentence Mr. Lee to a term of imprisonment of 144 months.
Mr. Lee’s motive for setting the fire is a foremost issue. Mr. Lee credibly states that he was in the streets to protest unlawful police violence against black men, and there is no basis to disbelieve this statement. Mr. Lee, appropriately, acknowledges that he “could have demonstrated in a different way,” but that he was “caught up in the fury of the mob after living as a black man watching his peers suffer at the hands of police.” (PSR ¶ 13.) As anyone watching the news world-wide knows, many other people in Minnesota were similarly caught up. There appear to have been many people in those days looking only to exploit the chaos and disorder in the interests of personal gain or random violence. There appear also to have been many people who felt angry, frustrated, and disenfranchised, and who were attempting, in many cases in an unacceptably reckless and dangerous manner, to give voice to those feelings. Mr. Lee appears to be squarely in this latter category. And even the great American advocate for non-violence and social justice, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., stated in an interview with CBC’s Mike Wallace in 1966 that “we’ve got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard.” Lily Rothman, What Martin Luther King Jr Really Thought About Riots, Time Magazine (2015), https://time.com/3838515.
In light of these circumstances, the analysis of the Guidelines does not appear appropriate.So, the guidelines said maximum sentence for felony murder is up to 25 years, but the max allowable is 20 years.
Because he was in a "just cause" during "mostly peaceful" protests, his sentence is cut to half that. He'll be out in 7-8 years for felony murder.
Good thing he wasn't illegally marching or something like that, else he'd have been in solitary confinement all this time.
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It has been a year and a half since Cotton asked that question. Garland has not responded.
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Damn good thing he didn't break into the Capitol. That could have gotten him 22 years.
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QUOTE
Prosecutors & judges put ideology before justice.
UNQUOTEI think kind of a dumb statement. This supposes that the whole US criminal system, including judges, has some conspiracy to throw away their morals and oaths just because they hate president Trump. Most conspiracy are because people dont want to believe the truth.
If anyone takes the time and effort to do the numbers, I would guess that the % of judges is probably equally divided among those appointed by Republican or Democratic parties.
It is not uncommon human nature to try and shift the blame when it may be that the best answer is just most obvious one.
Athlete has positive drug test? Oh, it was a false positive. Or, lab samples were switched. etc.
No, you took drugs!!Team lost the game? Oh, it was the officials that made us lose. They were against us.
No, the other team was better!!Caught with drugs in your suitcase? Oh, I dont know where they came from. They were planted. etc.
No, you tried to smuggle!!Didn't get the promotion? Oh, it was because of my performance. Boss has it in for me. etc.
No, your performance was not good enough!!Storm the capital and try and overthrow the election? Oh, it was a peaceful protest. All the judges are conspiring against me.
No, you severely broke the law.While I am on my rant (LOL), not all crimes are equal. (Not sure if that is good or bad, but it is the truth)
Hit a random person in the leg with stick?
or
Hit the US president in the leg with a stick?Which incident do you think will get more investigation and more severe sentence?
Breaking into a 7-11 (or even a police station) vs. breaking into the US Capital. Same?
Okay, rant over. 555
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QUOTE
Prosecutors & judges put ideology before justice.
UNQUOTEI think kind of a dumb statement. This supposes that the whole US criminal system, including judges, has some conspiracy to throw away their morals and oaths just because they hate president Trump. Most conspiracy are because people dont want to believe the truth.
If anyone takes the time and effort to do the numbers, I would guess that the % of judges is probably equally divided among those appointed by Republican or Democratic parties.
It is not uncommon human nature to try and shift the blame when it may be that the best answer is just most obvious one.
Athlete has positive drug test? Oh, it was a false positive. Or, lab samples were switched. etc.
No, you took drugs!!Team lost the game? Oh, it was the officials that made us lose. They were against us.
No, the other team was better!!Caught with drugs in your suitcase? Oh, I dont know where they came from. They were planted. etc.
No, you tried to smuggle!!Didn't get the promotion? Oh, it was because of my performance. Boss has it in for me. etc.
No, your performance was not good enough!!Storm the capital and try and overthrow the election? Oh, it was a peaceful protest. All the judges are conspiring against me.
No, you severely broke the law.While I am on my rant (LOL), not all crimes are equal. (Not sure if that is good or bad, but it is the truth)
Hit a random person in the leg with stick?
or
Hit the US president in the leg with a stick?Which incident do you think will get more investigation and more severe sentence?
Breaking into a 7-11 (or even a police station) vs. breaking into the US Capital. Same?
Okay, rant over. 555
Just to nitpick...
@taiwan_girl said in BLM gets you a lower sentence for felony murder:
Hit a random person in the leg with stick?
or
Hit the US president in the leg with a stick?I may be wrong, but I believe that there are laws that differentiate between the two actions. Apply the applicable law.
The "crime" is the same, but the law is different. Use the law.
Storm the capital and try and overthrow the election? Oh, it was a peaceful protest. All the judges are conspiring against me.
No, you severely broke the law.When the judge applies sentences that exceed those that are recommended by the prosecution, you have to raise an eyebrow and say, "What?"
There are guidelines that exist. When the judges ignore them, you have to wonder.
Breaking into a 7-11 (or even a police station) vs. breaking into the US Capital. Same?
No, not the same. Again, apply the law. What about trying to burn down a federal courthouse. That's what happened in Portland in 2020, and (I may be wrong) none of the convicted perps in that case received 20 years.
I'm all for prosecuting convicted criminals to the full extent of the law. But when the prosecution is not equally applied, it makes you wonder.
Does felony murder deserve a smaller sentence than storming the Capitol building?
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Just to nitpick...
@taiwan_girl said in BLM gets you a lower sentence for felony murder:
Hit a random person in the leg with stick?
or
Hit the US president in the leg with a stick?I may be wrong, but I believe that there are laws that differentiate between the two actions. Apply the applicable law.
The "crime" is the same, but the law is different. Use the law.
Storm the capital and try and overthrow the election? Oh, it was a peaceful protest. All the judges are conspiring against me.
No, you severely broke the law.When the judge applies sentences that exceed those that are recommended by the prosecution, you have to raise an eyebrow and say, "What?"
There are guidelines that exist. When the judges ignore them, you have to wonder.
Breaking into a 7-11 (or even a police station) vs. breaking into the US Capital. Same?
No, not the same. Again, apply the law. What about trying to burn down a federal courthouse. That's what happened in Portland in 2020, and (I may be wrong) none of the convicted perps in that case received 20 years.
I'm all for prosecuting convicted criminals to the full extent of the law. But when the prosecution is not equally applied, it makes you wonder.
Does felony murder deserve a smaller sentence than storming the Capitol building?
@George-K I dont disagree with any of your statements, but.....
If it were just one lawyer, one jury, and one judge for all the cases, then I would say that something "fishy" is going on.
But, there have been lots of trials, lots of lawyers, lots of juries, lots of judges, so it seems a bit far-fetch that they all just happen to be Trump haters. Doesnt make sense.
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@George-K I dont disagree with any of your statements, but.....
If it were just one lawyer, one jury, and one judge for all the cases, then I would say that something "fishy" is going on.
But, there have been lots of trials, lots of lawyers, lots of juries, lots of judges, so it seems a bit far-fetch that they all just happen to be Trump haters. Doesnt make sense.
@taiwan_girl said in BLM gets you a lower sentence for felony murder:
But, there have been lots of trials, lots of lawyers, lots of juries, lots of judges, so it seems a bit far-fetch that they all just happen to be Trump haters.
I understand your point. And I'm not pointing to a conspiracy. I'm pointing to a "mindset" as to how cases should be handled, prosecuted and sentenced. Look at how cases are handled in Cook County and tell me that there's not a mindset on how cases should be handled.
When prosecutors and judges have a mindset, even if they don't realize it, justice is hard to reach.
There are many offenders of the Jan 6 riot who were held in custody for months and months without bail or trial. They were held for crimes such as "parading" or "trespassing." If they were held for (alleged) insurrection I'd get it. But they're not. That's the case for multiple judges and multiple lawyers.
I can set someone on fire in Cook County and be granted bail within a matter of days, if not hours.
The murderer who got a lesser sentence for burning a pawn shop owner to death (10 years) than the Proud Boys guy (22 years) is just one example. There are many, if you care to look.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@taiwan_girl said in BLM gets you a lower sentence for felony murder:
But, there have been lots of trials, lots of lawyers, lots of juries, lots of judges, so it seems a bit far-fetch that they all just happen to be Trump haters.
I understand your point. And I'm not pointing to a conspiracy. I'm pointing to a "mindset" as to how cases should be handled, prosecuted and sentenced. Look at how cases are handled in Cook County and tell me that there's not a mindset on how cases should be handled.
When prosecutors and judges have a mindset, even if they don't realize it, justice is hard to reach.
There are many offenders of the Jan 6 riot who were held in custody for months and months without bail or trial. They were held for crimes such as "parading" or "trespassing." If they were held for (alleged) insurrection I'd get it. But they're not. That's the case for multiple judges and multiple lawyers.
I can set someone on fire in Cook County and be granted bail within a matter of days, if not hours.
The murderer who got a lesser sentence for burning a pawn shop owner to death (10 years) than the Proud Boys guy (22 years) is just one example. There are many, if you care to look.
@George-K said in BLM gets you a lower sentence for felony murder:
The murderer who got a lesser sentence for burning a pawn shop owner to death (10 years) than the Proud Boys guy (22 years) is just one example.
Were both incorrect or only one or the other?
I think that the US criminal system is about the best in the world, and mostly favors the defendant. The "innocent until guilty" I believe is truly followed.
Yes, there are individual cases where the sentence does not appear fair, but overall, the more data points, the less likely there is bias and there are a lot of data points involved with this.
An overview of the cases so far
Number of people charged, federal: 1,139
Number of people who have pleaded guilty: 656
Number of individuals who have had jury, bench, or stipulated bench trials: 139
The number with mixed verdicts: 41
The number convicted on all charges: 96
The number acquitted on all charges: 2
Number of people sentenced: 618
The percentage of people sentenced who have received prison time: 64
The median sentence for those who received prison time, in days: 120
The number of cases dismissed: 7 federalFrom the above, 136 people went to trial. 71% were fully guilty. 98.5% were guilty on some charges. Only about 10% of the people sentenced received jail and the median jail was 4 months.
(Off topic a bit on bail. Because someone is rich, does that make them less of a danger? If you are poor and cannot afford bail, you stay in jail. If I do the same crime, but am rich, I am released. Maybe I am a more violent person, but I get out to be among society.
I am not quite sure yet how I feel about bail)
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Money talks in the U.S. justice system. Politics can affect the system, both internal and external to the judiciary.
Even law enforcement and the DA at the local level can affect the justice system. I know of one case where the judge and DA were politically bought off and an attempted murder charge fell to a conviction of felonious assault.
Damn good thing my wife's uncle can't shoot...he only hit the guy twice at point blank range
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@George-K said in BLM gets you a lower sentence for felony murder:
The murderer who got a lesser sentence for burning a pawn shop owner to death (10 years) than the Proud Boys guy (22 years) is just one example.
Were both incorrect or only one or the other?
I think that the US criminal system is about the best in the world, and mostly favors the defendant. The "innocent until guilty" I believe is truly followed.
Yes, there are individual cases where the sentence does not appear fair, but overall, the more data points, the less likely there is bias and there are a lot of data points involved with this.
An overview of the cases so far
Number of people charged, federal: 1,139
Number of people who have pleaded guilty: 656
Number of individuals who have had jury, bench, or stipulated bench trials: 139
The number with mixed verdicts: 41
The number convicted on all charges: 96
The number acquitted on all charges: 2
Number of people sentenced: 618
The percentage of people sentenced who have received prison time: 64
The median sentence for those who received prison time, in days: 120
The number of cases dismissed: 7 federalFrom the above, 136 people went to trial. 71% were fully guilty. 98.5% were guilty on some charges. Only about 10% of the people sentenced received jail and the median jail was 4 months.
(Off topic a bit on bail. Because someone is rich, does that make them less of a danger? If you are poor and cannot afford bail, you stay in jail. If I do the same crime, but am rich, I am released. Maybe I am a more violent person, but I get out to be among society.
I am not quite sure yet how I feel about bail)
@taiwan_girl said in BLM gets you a lower sentence for felony murder:
@George-K said in BLM gets you a lower sentence for felony murder:
The murderer who got a lesser sentence for burning a pawn shop owner to death (10 years) than the Proud Boys guy (22 years) is just one example.
Were both incorrect or only one or the other?
I think that the US criminal system is about the best in the world, and mostly favors the defendant. The "innocent until guilty" I believe is truly followed.
Yes, there are individual cases where the sentence does not appear fair, but overall, the more data points, the less likely there is bias and there are a lot of data points involved with this.
An overview of the cases so far
Number of people charged, federal: 1,139
Number of people who have pleaded guilty: 656
Number of individuals who have had jury, bench, or stipulated bench trials: 139
The number with mixed verdicts: 41
The number convicted on all charges: 96
The number acquitted on all charges: 2
Number of people sentenced: 618
The percentage of people sentenced who have received prison time: 64
The median sentence for those who received prison time, in days: 120
The number of cases dismissed: 7 federalFrom the above, 136 people went to trial. 71% were fully guilty. 98.5% were guilty on some charges. Only about 10% of the people sentenced received jail and the median jail was 4 months.
(Off topic a bit on bail. Because someone is rich, does that make them less of a danger? If you are poor and cannot afford bail, you stay in jail. If I do the same crime, but am rich, I am released. Maybe I am a more violent person, but I get out to be among society.
I am not quite sure yet how I feel about bail)
Now, do the BLM people.
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@taiwan_girl said in BLM gets you a lower sentence for felony murder:
@George-K said in BLM gets you a lower sentence for felony murder:
The murderer who got a lesser sentence for burning a pawn shop owner to death (10 years) than the Proud Boys guy (22 years) is just one example.
Were both incorrect or only one or the other?
I think that the US criminal system is about the best in the world, and mostly favors the defendant. The "innocent until guilty" I believe is truly followed.
Yes, there are individual cases where the sentence does not appear fair, but overall, the more data points, the less likely there is bias and there are a lot of data points involved with this.
An overview of the cases so far
Number of people charged, federal: 1,139
Number of people who have pleaded guilty: 656
Number of individuals who have had jury, bench, or stipulated bench trials: 139
The number with mixed verdicts: 41
The number convicted on all charges: 96
The number acquitted on all charges: 2
Number of people sentenced: 618
The percentage of people sentenced who have received prison time: 64
The median sentence for those who received prison time, in days: 120
The number of cases dismissed: 7 federalFrom the above, 136 people went to trial. 71% were fully guilty. 98.5% were guilty on some charges. Only about 10% of the people sentenced received jail and the median jail was 4 months.
(Off topic a bit on bail. Because someone is rich, does that make them less of a danger? If you are poor and cannot afford bail, you stay in jail. If I do the same crime, but am rich, I am released. Maybe I am a more violent person, but I get out to be among society.
I am not quite sure yet how I feel about bail)
Now, do the BLM people.
@Jolly said in BLM gets you a lower sentence for felony murder:
Now, do the BLM people.
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An Associated Press review of court documents in more than 300 federal cases stemming from the protests sparked by George Floyd’s death last year shows that dozens of people charged have been convicted of serious crimes and sent to prison.The AP found that more than 120 defendants across the United States have pleaded guilty or were convicted at trial of federal crimes including rioting, arson and conspiracy. More than 70 defendants who’ve been sentenced so far have gotten an average of about 27 months behind bars. At least 10 received prison terms of five years or more.
UNQUOTEArticle is from Aug 2021, so the numbers have changed I am sure. But from the above, 27 months average prison for BLM vs. 4 months avg prison for Jan 6
https://apnews.com/article/records-rebut-claims-jan-6-rioters-55adf4d46aff57b91af2fdd3345dace8 -
@Jolly said in BLM gets you a lower sentence for felony murder:
Now, do the BLM people.
QUOTE
An Associated Press review of court documents in more than 300 federal cases stemming from the protests sparked by George Floyd’s death last year shows that dozens of people charged have been convicted of serious crimes and sent to prison.The AP found that more than 120 defendants across the United States have pleaded guilty or were convicted at trial of federal crimes including rioting, arson and conspiracy. More than 70 defendants who’ve been sentenced so far have gotten an average of about 27 months behind bars. At least 10 received prison terms of five years or more.
UNQUOTEArticle is from Aug 2021, so the numbers have changed I am sure. But from the above, 27 months average prison for BLM vs. 4 months avg prison for Jan 6
https://apnews.com/article/records-rebut-claims-jan-6-rioters-55adf4d46aff57b91af2fdd3345dace8@taiwan_girl said in BLM gets you a lower sentence for felony murder:
@Jolly said in BLM gets you a lower sentence for felony murder:
Now, do the BLM people.
QUOTE
An Associated Press review of court documents in more than 300 federal cases stemming from the protests sparked by George Floyd’s death last year shows that dozens of people charged have been convicted of serious crimes and sent to prison.The AP found that more than 120 defendants across the United States have pleaded guilty or were convicted at trial of federal crimes including rioting, arson and conspiracy. More than 70 defendants who’ve been sentenced so far have gotten an average of about 27 months behind bars. At least 10 received prison terms of five years or more.
UNQUOTEArticle is from Aug 2021, so the numbers have changed I am sure. But from the above, 27 months average prison for BLM vs. 4 months avg prison for Jan 6
https://apnews.com/article/records-rebut-claims-jan-6-rioters-55adf4d46aff57b91af2fdd3345dace827 vs 4, wow, must be racism then, against the BLM protestors?
Or if it's not racism, maybe it's a completely meaningless comparison?
It's the dumbest use of statistics I've seen in a while. No mention of the crimes or circumstances beyond "related to the BLM riots", and then a comparison of sentences for these unspecified crimes.
I am sure a reasonable comparison could be done, and I am sure there are people doing it. That AP article ain't it.
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Jan 6 rioters: The median sentence for those who received prison time, in days: 120
BLM: an average of about 27 months
Compare apples to apples.
The other difference is that your BLM statistic looks at only federal charges. I have little doubt that there were charges filed (or, ignored) at the state/local level. Attacking a police station is not a federal crime, I believe, nor is looting a store.
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@George-K @Horace I agree. Statistics can be made to made to follow a narrative that you want it to follow.
But, I have not seen anything that says that, OVERALL, the Jan 6 people were treated worse than the BLM protestors.
What is that meme that is posted occasionally here - "Change My Mind" 555
EDIT: Here is on that says that the Jan 6 protestors are treated worse.
https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2021/09/09/realclearinvestigations_jan_6-blm_comparison_database_791370.htmlA pretty good analysis of the BLM protests
