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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Pig Heart Transplant

Pig Heart Transplant

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  • MikM Mik

    A big win. Two months for the first attempt is a pretty good indication of viability.

    Doctor PhibesD Online
    Doctor PhibesD Online
    Doctor Phibes
    wrote on last edited by
    #31

    @Mik said in Heart Transplant:

    A big win.

    Not for pigs, it isn't.

    I was only joking

    1 Reply Last reply
    • HoraceH Offline
      HoraceH Offline
      Horace
      wrote on last edited by
      #32

      Still viable for bacon.

      Education is extremely important.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by
        #33

        The transplant raised ethical concerns among animal rights activists, who believe animals should not be sacrificed for human benefit, and among some who objected to Bennett, who had served time in prison for attacking a man with a knife, receiving a life-extending procedure.

        Well, there’s two groups of people who can go fuck themselves.

        "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
        -Cormac McCarthy

        JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

          The transplant raised ethical concerns among animal rights activists, who believe animals should not be sacrificed for human benefit, and among some who objected to Bennett, who had served time in prison for attacking a man with a knife, receiving a life-extending procedure.

          Well, there’s two groups of people who can go fuck themselves.

          JollyJ Offline
          JollyJ Offline
          Jolly
          wrote on last edited by
          #34

          @jon-nyc said in Heart Transplant:

          The transplant raised ethical concerns among animal rights activists, who believe animals should not be sacrificed for human benefit, and among some who objected to Bennett, who had served time in prison for attacking a man with a knife, receiving a life-extending procedure.

          Well, there’s two groups of people who can go fuck themselves.

          Couldn't agree more.

          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

          1 Reply Last reply
          • HoraceH Offline
            HoraceH Offline
            Horace
            wrote on last edited by
            #35

            Their virtue can seem antisocial to some. That's why virtue such as theirs also requires courage.

            Education is extremely important.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • CopperC Offline
              CopperC Offline
              Copper
              wrote on last edited by
              #36

              Maybe they should give the guy's heart to the pig. At least give him a fighting chance.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • George KG Offline
                George KG Offline
                George K
                wrote on last edited by
                #37

                Pig virus may have been one factor in historic pig heart transplant patient's death

                The death of David Bennett Sr., who received a pig heart in place of his own, may have been hastened by another thing he got from the pig: a common virus.

                In Bennett's weakened state, the virus called pig cytomegalovirus or CMV might have been one of several factors that contributed to his eventual demise, according to Dr. Muhammad Mohiuddin, who co-led the University of Maryland Medicine team, that performed the Jan. 7 transplant.

                Bennett died two months after receiving the pig heart, which itself was a last-ditch effort to save his life.

                An autopsy after Bennett's death suggested that while the pig heart had been pumping well, scar tissue was building up in the organ, thickening it and preventing it from fully relaxing after pushing through the blood.

                Examination also revealed the presence of pig cytomegalovirus, the porcine version of a very common human virus usually kept in check by the immune system. A PCR analysis of tissue from Bennett's heart showed some viral DNA, though researchers found no clear signs of infection.

                The pig CMV clearly came from the transplant and was not something Bennett caught earlier, Mohiuddin said, although the pig had been checked for the virus using all available testing methods.

                "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • JollyJ Offline
                  JollyJ Offline
                  Jolly
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #38

                  That's interesting. How do you guaranty a totally disease-free pig?

                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                  George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                  • JollyJ Jolly

                    That's interesting. How do you guaranty a totally disease-free pig?

                    George KG Offline
                    George KG Offline
                    George K
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #39

                    @Jolly said in Heart Transplant:

                    That's interesting. How do you guaranty a totally disease-free pig?

                    Aqua's Sister in 3....2....1...

                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                      #40

                      Interestingly I take an antiviral to protect me from (human) CMV which my donor had but I didn't. I have to take it forever.

                      CMV is very common, if I had had it pre-transplant it wouldn't be a problem and I wouldn't take the anti-virals. But if I catch it now it could be an issue.

                      BTW, Moderna is working on a vaccine for it.

                      "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                      -Cormac McCarthy

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • AxtremusA Offline
                        AxtremusA Offline
                        Axtremus
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #41

                        I suppose that’s another risk with “non-human to human” transplant — we may hasten a whole bunch of viruses “jumping” from non-human to human, and this has implications far beyond transplant patients.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • MikM Offline
                          MikM Offline
                          Mik
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #42

                          Still, two months is remarkable. The first human heart transplant lasted 18 days.

                          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • George KG Offline
                            George KG Offline
                            George K
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #43

                            Pig-Heart Transplants in Two Brain-Dead People Offer Chance to Improve Tests for Pig Viruses

                            Two brain-dead individuals received genetically modified pig-heart transplants, part of growing efforts by scientists who want to improve tests on pig organs for pig viruses and gather data that could help launch clinical trials of animal-to-human organ transplants.

                            Scientists at NYU Langone Health, where the research studies took place in June and July, said the pig hearts were flown from a facility hundreds of miles away and then transplanted into two recently deceased individuals, Lawrence Kelly, 72, a former welder from Beaver Meadows, Pa., and Alva Capuano, 64, a former teacher from New York City.

                            Mr. Kelly was driving alone in his car when he suffered a heart attack, according to his fiancée, Alice Michael. Ms. Capuano, who had been the recipient of a kidney transplant from her son many years ago, had a heart attack while at home, said her husband, Richard Capuano.

                            Both individuals were later declared brain-dead and maintained on ventilators. Their families agreed to donate their bodies to science, to take part in the research studies. In the U.S., brain death is defined as the irreversible cessation of all brain function, even if heart and lung activity can be maintained with machines.

                            The studies focused on gathering data about how the pig hearts functioned as well as implementing a new set of strategies to test for and prevent the transmission of pig viruses—a longtime area of concern by the Food and Drug Administration that has intensified in the wake of the death of a Maryland man who in January was transplanted with a pig heart that was later discovered to have a pig virus in it.

                            In the NYU studies, researchers used a newly created infectious-disease protocol designed to help ensure that pig viruses weren’t transmitted to the research subjects who received the hearts or the team of health providers involved in the experiments.

                            The pig hearts weren’t immediately rejected by the recipients’ bodies and functioned for the duration of the three-day studies, according to Nader Moazami, surgical director of heart transplantation at NYU Langone Health, who led the pig-heart procedures. The data haven’t been published yet or peer-reviewed.

                            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                            RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                            • George KG George K

                              Pig-Heart Transplants in Two Brain-Dead People Offer Chance to Improve Tests for Pig Viruses

                              Two brain-dead individuals received genetically modified pig-heart transplants, part of growing efforts by scientists who want to improve tests on pig organs for pig viruses and gather data that could help launch clinical trials of animal-to-human organ transplants.

                              Scientists at NYU Langone Health, where the research studies took place in June and July, said the pig hearts were flown from a facility hundreds of miles away and then transplanted into two recently deceased individuals, Lawrence Kelly, 72, a former welder from Beaver Meadows, Pa., and Alva Capuano, 64, a former teacher from New York City.

                              Mr. Kelly was driving alone in his car when he suffered a heart attack, according to his fiancée, Alice Michael. Ms. Capuano, who had been the recipient of a kidney transplant from her son many years ago, had a heart attack while at home, said her husband, Richard Capuano.

                              Both individuals were later declared brain-dead and maintained on ventilators. Their families agreed to donate their bodies to science, to take part in the research studies. In the U.S., brain death is defined as the irreversible cessation of all brain function, even if heart and lung activity can be maintained with machines.

                              The studies focused on gathering data about how the pig hearts functioned as well as implementing a new set of strategies to test for and prevent the transmission of pig viruses—a longtime area of concern by the Food and Drug Administration that has intensified in the wake of the death of a Maryland man who in January was transplanted with a pig heart that was later discovered to have a pig virus in it.

                              In the NYU studies, researchers used a newly created infectious-disease protocol designed to help ensure that pig viruses weren’t transmitted to the research subjects who received the hearts or the team of health providers involved in the experiments.

                              The pig hearts weren’t immediately rejected by the recipients’ bodies and functioned for the duration of the three-day studies, according to Nader Moazami, surgical director of heart transplantation at NYU Langone Health, who led the pig-heart procedures. The data haven’t been published yet or peer-reviewed.

                              RenaudaR Offline
                              RenaudaR Offline
                              Renauda
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #44

                              @George-K

                              Democrats, eh?

                              Elbows up!

                              Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                              • RenaudaR Renauda

                                @George-K

                                Democrats, eh?

                                Doctor PhibesD Online
                                Doctor PhibesD Online
                                Doctor Phibes
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #45

                                @Renauda said in Pig Heart Transplant:

                                @George-K

                                Democrats, eh?

                                There'd be little point in transplanting Republican hearts as they don't have one in the first place.

                                I was only joking

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • taiwan_girlT Offline
                                  taiwan_girlT Offline
                                  taiwan_girl
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #46

                                  https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/health/article/texas-heart-institute-announces-groundbreaking-19596234.php

                                  A new chapter in artificial heart development unfolded Thursday in Houston, where officials at the Texas Heart Institute announced they had successfully implanted a novel device that they hope can become the first long-term solution for patients with advanced heart failure.

                                  The device — a rotary-powered, hand-sized artificial heart — whirred inside a 58-year-old man’s chest for eight days, helping him maintain normal vital signs and organ function until he received a lifesaving heart transplant on July 17. The man, who had suffered from end-stage heart failure and was not available for interviews, became the first of five candidates who will test the device’s safety and feasibility as part of a Food and Drug Administration study.

                                  The trial run was hailed by Texas Heart officials as “groundbreaking” at a Thursday news conference, and not because the device served as a temporary option for a transplant candidate. Current versions of the device already serve that function. Its use represented a major step toward loftier ambitions: replacing the need for a heart transplant at all.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • George KG Offline
                                    George KG Offline
                                    George K
                                    wrote on last edited by George K
                                    #47

                                    Current iterations act more like a human heart, with a flexible polymer material that pulsates as blood flows in and out of the device through air-powered pumps, which pierce the stomach.

                                    No, they pierce the abdomen. The stomach is an organ.

                                    But, on to the BiVACOR

                                    It relies on a single, continuously spinning rotor, suspended by an electromagnet inside a titanium casing. Like the current artificial hearts, it relies on a controller that sits outside the body and is tethered by a cord through the skin.

                                    Questions:

                                    1. Does the patient need anticoagulation?
                                    2. It's not pulsatile, like a real heart. So there's no real "blood pressure," with a high and a low pressure during each cycle. Back in the day, I was under the impression that non-pulsatile flow is not a good thing. I can't seem to find anything recent (less than 6 years) to indicate that that thinking has changed.
                                    3. This is intended to be a semi-permanent solution for heart failure. 10 years? I question the morbidity (and mortality) of having to go in and replace the worn-out device with a new one in a patient who is already compromised.
                                    4. This is reported as a "transition device" between explant of the patient's heart and transplantation of a new heart. The article says that it was in for 8 days. What happens when you can't find a suitable donor for 9 days, or a month?

                                    Get off my lawn.

                                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                    taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • George KG George K

                                      Current iterations act more like a human heart, with a flexible polymer material that pulsates as blood flows in and out of the device through air-powered pumps, which pierce the stomach.

                                      No, they pierce the abdomen. The stomach is an organ.

                                      But, on to the BiVACOR

                                      It relies on a single, continuously spinning rotor, suspended by an electromagnet inside a titanium casing. Like the current artificial hearts, it relies on a controller that sits outside the body and is tethered by a cord through the skin.

                                      Questions:

                                      1. Does the patient need anticoagulation?
                                      2. It's not pulsatile, like a real heart. So there's no real "blood pressure," with a high and a low pressure during each cycle. Back in the day, I was under the impression that non-pulsatile flow is not a good thing. I can't seem to find anything recent (less than 6 years) to indicate that that thinking has changed.
                                      3. This is intended to be a semi-permanent solution for heart failure. 10 years? I question the morbidity (and mortality) of having to go in and replace the worn-out device with a new one in a patient who is already compromised.
                                      4. This is reported as a "transition device" between explant of the patient's heart and transplantation of a new heart. The article says that it was in for 8 days. What happens when you can't find a suitable donor for 9 days, or a month?

                                      Get off my lawn.

                                      taiwan_girlT Offline
                                      taiwan_girlT Offline
                                      taiwan_girl
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #48

                                      @George-K Thanks for the realistic feedback on this!! 😍

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • AxtremusA Offline
                                        AxtremusA Offline
                                        Axtremus
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #49

                                        Likely there are many other big problems, but I am curious about this: psychologically, how does the patient feel about being alive without having a pulse?

                                        I feel weird just thinking about it. :man-shrugging:

                                        Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • AxtremusA Axtremus

                                          Likely there are many other big problems, but I am curious about this: psychologically, how does the patient feel about being alive without having a pulse?

                                          I feel weird just thinking about it. :man-shrugging:

                                          Doctor PhibesD Online
                                          Doctor PhibesD Online
                                          Doctor Phibes
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #50

                                          @Axtremus said in Pig Heart Transplant:

                                          Likely there are many other big problems, but I am curious about this: psychologically, how does the patient feel about being alive without having a pulse?

                                          I feel weird just thinking about it. :man-shrugging

                                          It beats the alternative

                                          I was only joking

                                          AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
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