A brief history of vaccination mandates....
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Pretty much every vaccine mandate listed were for diseases that had extraordinarily high CFR’s. The influence mandates at hospitals would be one exception, and that has been of questionable merit.
Now we can discuss children’s vaccination requirements for schools as some of those diseases such as mumps or measles do have lower CFR’s in general, but can have more severe repercussions for children. Chicken Pox would be the one exception to that rule. Now while those vaccines are required for schools there are vast numbers of exemptions for those, and let me point out that those vaccines are not required by almost all workplaces short of the military…
The mandates we are seeing now are unprecedented in this country.
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I can see the argument against, but it's kinda silly considering what else we have to do to get our kids into a public school. This is a weird hill to die on in context to the much larger ones that the anti-vaxxers already take for granted.
Please love yourself.
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I can see the argument against, but it's kinda silly considering what else we have to do to get our kids into a public school. This is a weird hill to die on in context to the much larger ones that the anti-vaxxers already take for granted.
@aqua-letifer said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
I can see the argument against, but it's kinda silly considering what else we have to do to get our kids into a public school. This is a weird hill to die on in context to the much larger ones that the anti-vaxxers already take for granted.
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I can see the argument against, but it's kinda silly considering what else we have to do to get our kids into a public school. This is a weird hill to die on in context to the much larger ones that the anti-vaxxers already take for granted.
@aqua-letifer said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
I can see the argument against, but it's kinda silly considering what else we have to do to get our kids into a public school. This is a weird hill to die on in context to the much larger ones that the anti-vaxxers already take for granted.
Those other vaccines aren’t requiring boosters every 6 months, either…
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@aqua-letifer said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
I can see the argument against, but it's kinda silly considering what else we have to do to get our kids into a public school. This is a weird hill to die on in context to the much larger ones that the anti-vaxxers already take for granted.
Those other vaccines aren’t requiring boosters every 6 months, either…
@lufins-dad said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
@aqua-letifer said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
I can see the argument against, but it's kinda silly considering what else we have to do to get our kids into a public school. This is a weird hill to die on in context to the much larger ones that the anti-vaxxers already take for granted.
Those other vaccines aren’t requiring boosters every 6 months, either…
Yes because that's entirely the fault of the Bill Gates tracking devices and not at all this particular virus.
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@aqua-letifer said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
@lufins-dad said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
@aqua-letifer said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
I can see the argument against, but it's kinda silly considering what else we have to do to get our kids into a public school. This is a weird hill to die on in context to the much larger ones that the anti-vaxxers already take for granted.
Those other vaccines aren’t requiring boosters every 6 months, either…
Yes because that's entirely the fault of the Bill Gates tracking devices and not at all this particular
Right… Thinking that it’s not the best idea to force children (who naturally don’t spread COVID very much) to take a vaccine that doesn’t really seem to contain spread that well twice a year is totally comparable to thinking that this is all a mind control plot…
The Brad
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Follow the science.
What are the fatalities and long-term effects of COVID in children vs. the fatalities and side effects of the shot?
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Follow the science.
What are the fatalities and long-term effects of COVID in children vs. the fatalities and side effects of the shot?
@jolly said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
Follow the science.
What are the fatalities and long-term effects of COVID in children vs. the fatalities and side effects of the shot?
Seems reasonable.
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Follow the science.
What are the fatalities and long-term effects of COVID in children vs. the fatalities and side effects of the shot?
@jolly said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
Follow the science.
What are the fatalities and long-term effects of COVID in children vs. the fatalities and side effects of the shot?
But Jolly, it’s not about them, it’s about who they give it to.
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@aqua-letifer said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
@lufins-dad said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
@aqua-letifer said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
I can see the argument against, but it's kinda silly considering what else we have to do to get our kids into a public school. This is a weird hill to die on in context to the much larger ones that the anti-vaxxers already take for granted.
Those other vaccines aren’t requiring boosters every 6 months, either…
Yes because that's entirely the fault of the Bill Gates tracking devices and not at all this particular
Right… Thinking that it’s not the best idea to force children (who naturally don’t spread COVID very much) to take a vaccine that doesn’t really seem to contain spread that well twice a year is totally comparable to thinking that this is all a mind control plot…
@lufins-dad said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
@aqua-letifer said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
@lufins-dad said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
@aqua-letifer said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
I can see the argument against, but it's kinda silly considering what else we have to do to get our kids into a public school. This is a weird hill to die on in context to the much larger ones that the anti-vaxxers already take for granted.
Those other vaccines aren’t requiring boosters every 6 months, either…
Yes because that's entirely the fault of the Bill Gates tracking devices and not at all this particular
Right… Thinking that it’s not the best idea to force children (who naturally don’t spread COVID very much) to take a vaccine that doesn’t really seem to contain spread that well twice a year is totally comparable to thinking that this is all a mind control plot…
DTaP/DTP/DT
Polio
Hib
MMR
PCV
Hep B
Chickenpox
State-imposed truancy that can put you in jail
Selective Service
State-imposed vision and hearing tests
Height, weight, blood pressure readings
Mandatory physicalsOut of all that, your beef is with "forcing" kids to get another vaccine? Why not follow Jolly's idea?
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Rubella and Chickenpox carry almost no risk to children. The only reason vaccines are required in schools is to eliminate spread, particularly to pregnant women. Both vaccines are very effective against spread. COVID Vaccines? Not so much…So what is the point in giving the vaccine to kids?
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@lufins-dad said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
Rubella and Chickenpox carry almost no risk to children. The only reason vaccines are required in schools is to eliminate spread, particularly to pregnant women. Both vaccines are very effective against spread. COVID Vaccines? Not so much…So what is the point in giving the vaccine to kids?
See Jolly's post. I'm fine with either outcome of that analysis but sounds like you're saying, without any evidence, that COVID vaccines are more dangerous to kids than COVID and that no COVID vaccine does anything to protect either individual children or society.
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@lufins-dad said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
Rubella and Chickenpox carry almost no risk to children. The only reason vaccines are required in schools is to eliminate spread, particularly to pregnant women. Both vaccines are very effective against spread. COVID Vaccines? Not so much…So what is the point in giving the vaccine to kids?
See Jolly's post. I'm fine with either outcome of that analysis but sounds like you're saying, without any evidence, that COVID vaccines are more dangerous to kids than COVID and that no COVID vaccine does anything to protect either individual children or society.
@aqua-letifer said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
@lufins-dad said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
Rubella and Chickenpox carry almost no risk to children. The only reason vaccines are required in schools is to eliminate spread, particularly to pregnant women. Both vaccines are very effective against spread. COVID Vaccines? Not so much…So what is the point in giving the vaccine to kids?
See Jolly's post. I'm fine with either outcome of that analysis but sounds like you're saying, without any evidence, that COVID vaccines are more dangerous to kids than COVID and that no COVID vaccine does anything to protect either individual children or society.
No, I’ve not said anything of the sort. I have said that COVID poses very little risk to children comparatively. We know that an unvaccinated school aged child is at less risk than a vaccinated and boostered adult over 50… We also know that community spread is very low among children. That is established and shown over both significant variants. There are two reasons to give boosters to kids, to increase their protection from a serious disease, and or to prevent them from spreading to adults who are at greater risk. We’ve already seen that these current vaccines don’t do much against community spread. They do a remarkable job at lowering the risk of significant illness. Well, if they aren’t going to help much in preventing spread, and kids are already relatively safe from the worst of this disease, then why are we going to force kids to take it?
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@aqua-letifer said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
@lufins-dad said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
Rubella and Chickenpox carry almost no risk to children. The only reason vaccines are required in schools is to eliminate spread, particularly to pregnant women. Both vaccines are very effective against spread. COVID Vaccines? Not so much…So what is the point in giving the vaccine to kids?
See Jolly's post. I'm fine with either outcome of that analysis but sounds like you're saying, without any evidence, that COVID vaccines are more dangerous to kids than COVID and that no COVID vaccine does anything to protect either individual children or society.
No, I’ve not said anything of the sort. I have said that COVID poses very little risk to children comparatively. We know that an unvaccinated school aged child is at less risk than a vaccinated and boostered adult over 50… We also know that community spread is very low among children. That is established and shown over both significant variants. There are two reasons to give boosters to kids, to increase their protection from a serious disease, and or to prevent them from spreading to adults who are at greater risk. We’ve already seen that these current vaccines don’t do much against community spread. They do a remarkable job at lowering the risk of significant illness. Well, if they aren’t going to help much in preventing spread, and kids are already relatively safe from the worst of this disease, then why are we going to force kids to take it?
@lufins-dad said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
@aqua-letifer said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
@lufins-dad said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
Rubella and Chickenpox carry almost no risk to children. The only reason vaccines are required in schools is to eliminate spread, particularly to pregnant women. Both vaccines are very effective against spread. COVID Vaccines? Not so much…So what is the point in giving the vaccine to kids?
See Jolly's post. I'm fine with either outcome of that analysis but sounds like you're saying, without any evidence, that COVID vaccines are more dangerous to kids than COVID and that no COVID vaccine does anything to protect either individual children or society.
No, I’ve not said anything of the sort. I have said that COVID poses very little risk to children comparatively. We know that an unvaccinated school aged child is at less risk than a vaccinated and boostered adult over 50… We also know that community spread is very low among children. That is established and shown over both significant variants. There are two reasons to give boosters to kids, to increase their protection from a serious disease, and or to prevent them from spreading to adults who are at greater risk. We’ve already seen that these current vaccines don’t do much against community spread. They do a remarkable job at lowering the risk of significant illness. Well, if they aren’t going to help much in preventing spread, and kids are already relatively safe from the worst of this disease, then why are we going to force kids to take it?
Because you just said that "they do a remarkable job at lowering the risk of significant illness." Kids have died from COVID. Are you saying a higher percentage have died from the vaccines?
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I am saying the mortality rate for kids with COVID has been lower than the rate of adults that have died from the vaccine. We saw the number last week… .2% I believe. And we’ve seen more serious side effects from the vaccine in younger men and boys.
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I am saying the mortality rate for kids with COVID has been lower than the rate of adults that have died from the vaccine. We saw the number last week… .2% I believe. And we’ve seen more serious side effects from the vaccine in younger men and boys.
@lufins-dad said in A brief history of vaccination mandates....:
I am saying the mortality rate for kids with COVID has been lower than the rate of adults that have died from the vaccine. We saw the number last week… .2% I believe. And we’ve seen more serious side effects from the vaccine in younger men and boys.
In my opinion, if the vaccines pose a greater health threat than COVID itself to children, then we shouldn't mandate child vaccinations. If they don't then this is all crazy talk. I'd like to see numbers and I'm open to either possibility.
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if you dont trust the FDA, we will have to wait for pfizers publication of the data in a journal. but in the meantime we have the FDA statement dated Oct 29:
ill snip and paste....
"In the U.S., COVID-19 cases in children 5 through 11 years of age make up 39% of cases in individuals younger than 18 years of age. According to the CDC, approximately 8,300 COVID-19 cases in children 5 through 11 years of age resulted in hospitalization. As of Oct. 17, 691 deaths from COVID-19 have been reported in the U.S. in individuals less than 18 years of age, with 146 deaths in the 5 through 11 years age group. "
"The FDA has determined this Pfizer vaccine has met the criteria for emergency use authorization. Based on the totality of scientific evidence available, the known and potential benefits of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine in individuals down to 5 years of age outweigh the known and potential risks. "
"The FDA’s model predicts that overall, the benefits of the vaccine would outweigh its risks in children 5 through 11 years of age."
ok now me...so the data is there. true i havent seen the raw numbers...maybe it will take another few weeks to have that published in a Journal like New England.
but in the end, what the hell more does anyone want? yes covid is overwhelmingly mild in kids but can still have serious cases in a small number. yes the vaccine has minor side effects. but in the end, not one pediatric covid death is justified when vaccines are available.
its such a fucking no brainer for me, so forgive me all, but i just cant see why any parent would not jump on this.
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Witness the FDA and how they flip-flopped on boosters after political pressure was applied.
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@jolly please exlplain
the FDA approved boosters of for above 65 and 18-64 at high risk, or occupational exposure on Sept 22
on OCT 20, the approval was expanded to include Moderna and J and J.
where exactly was the flip flop?
