Don't reform it. End it.

[Jolly]

That's not going to happen. And this opinion piece is a bit screechy. But the issue is definitely resonating out here in fly-over country...

https://freedomproject.com/blog/2021/10/12/freak-out-as-conservatives-exit-public-schools-abandon-reform

[George K]

@jolly said in Don't reform it. End it.:

a bit screechy

Yeah, when he says "the fringe leftwing magazine 'New Republic'."

Left wing to be sure, but "fringe?"

[Doctor Phibes]

@george-k said in Don't reform it. End it.:

@jolly said in Don't reform it. End it.:

a bit screechy

Yeah, when he says "the fringe leftwing magazine 'New Republic'."

Left wing to be sure, but "fringe?"

Pretty much everybody thinks of themselves as a mainstream centrist, so his idea of fringe is a bit different from yours or mine. Obviously, he's out there on the fringe.

[Jolly]

Don't think so.

The number of parents homeschooling or sending their children to private school has exploded around here. And we're much more conservative than most states (at least above I-10), so CRT hasn't been a huge factor.

[Doctor Phibes]

@jolly said in Don't reform it. End it.:

Don't think so.

The number of parents homeschooling or sending their children to private school has exploded around here. And we're much more conservative than most states (at least above I-10), so CRT hasn't been a huge factor.

Here's the thing. I qualified as a high school maths and physics teacher back in the 80's. I never taught, but I qualified. I've got a pretty good interest in a fairly diverse set of topics. Not to boast, but I'm probably quite a bit better read than your average joe.

And I absolutely know that I couldn't provide a level of education as well-rounded and of a high quality that my children got at the local middle school and high school. There is no freaking way.

How are others going to manage it? Particularly, it has to be said, folks who are already a little 'out there'?

I don't want to introduce Dunning-Kruger into this, but I will if I'm forced to!

[Axtremus]

@doctor-phibes said in Don't reform it. End it.:

And I absolutely know that I couldn't provide a level of education as well-rounded and of a high quality that my children got at the local middle school and high school.

You live in a good area in a state that ranks at the top for education. Folks @Jolly have in mind probably don’t have comparably good public school systems where they live.

“Local control” got your state and your local township the public school system you’ve got, but not the public school systems for folks in other places.

[Doctor Phibes]

@axtremus said in Don't reform it. End it.:

@doctor-phibes said in Don't reform it. End it.:

And I absolutely know that I couldn't provide a level of education as well-rounded and of a high quality that my children got at the local middle school and high school.

You live in a good area in a state that ranks at the top for education. Folks @Jolly have in mind probably don’t have comparably good public school systems where they live.

“Local control” got your state and your local township the public school system you’ve got, but not the public school systems for folks in other places.

Not being funny, but I believe that in a lot of cases the reason a school doesn't perform well is because the parents don't participate or get involved with their child's education. I remain unconvinced that a move towards home-schooling is going to help with this. In addition, the move seems to be primarily due to concerns regarding indoctrination rather than academic performance.

[Copper]

If the parents who care leave the public schools, then there will be even fewer parents who care about public schools.

This happened to Boston and DC and other school systems years ago.

The bad schools became very bad.

[Axtremus]

@doctor-phibes said in Don't reform it. End it.:

I remain unconvinced that a move towards home-schooling is going to help with this. In addition, the move seems to be primarily due to concerns regarding indoctrination rather than academic performance.

Indeed I also notice this. More folks choose to "home school" not because they want their kids to learn more STEM, but because they want their kids to not be exposed to certain things, like "sex ed" and the theory of evolution. In the USA, religious influence seems to play a prominent role in many parents' decisions to "home school."

[kluurs]

Many people feel that the education they received in school did not provide them with the life skills they actually use. The parents fail to see the value of an education that may cause their children to question their family values. I've just finished reading Infidel and Nomad by Ayaan Hirsi Ali who would say that Islamic fundamentalists agree with the strategy outlined. As long as the child keeps the faith, that is the most important thing.

[Doctor Phibes]

@kluurs said in Don't reform it. End it.:

Many people feel that the education they received in school did not provide them with the life skills they actually use. The parents fail to see the value of an education that may cause their children to question their family values. I've just finished reading Infidel and Nomad by Ayaan Hirsi Ali who would say that Islamic fundamentalists agree with the strategy outlined. As long as the child keeps the faith, that is the most important thing.

If large numbers of Muslims decide to home-school, I'd love to see conservatives come out and defend that as a great idea.

[Mik]

I agree with Phibes. The biggest factor in school success is parental involvement.

[Larry]

@axtremus said in Don't reform it. End it.:

@doctor-phibes said in Don't reform it. End it.:

I remain unconvinced that a move towards home-schooling is going to help with this. In addition, the move seems to be primarily due to concerns regarding indoctrination rather than academic performance.

Indeed I also notice this. More folks choose to "home school" not because they want their kids to learn more STEM, but because they want their kids to not be exposed to certain things, like "sex ed" and the theory of evolution. In the USA, religious influence seems to play a prominent role in many parents' decisions to "home school."

This is the kind of stupid, ignorant shit that just makes my skin crawl. It is conclusions reached based on ignorant bias, and a view commonly held by self righteous city asswipes that southerners are inferior, home schooling is a religious thing, done with no structure. All three views are not just incorrect, but so utterly incorrect as to affirm the value of home schooling.

Home schooling doesn't need to be put it parenthesis. It is NOT an unstructured, do it yourself willy nilly process that is somehow inferior to public schooling. It is NOT a religious thing. It's true that people of faith are more prone to objecting to their kids being indoctrinated than those with no faith, but that's a huge difference from the way Ax presented it.

Home schooling is done with academic oversight, lesson plans, goals have to be reached, etc.. just like public schools. Sex education and evolution are not omitted, the claim to the contrary being the product of a cripple brained asshat looking down his nose at those hes speaking about.

You need the shit kicked out of you.

[Catseye3]

When I was a young thing living in Germany, the system there split kids into two groups upon their 17th birthday: You proceeded either to academia or toward trade school. I don't know if that system still exists. I'd be surprised if it did. Maybe Klaus can say.

I thought it was a great idea.

Of course, it would never fly here. Parents would scream that their child, who was really brilliant if you got to know him, was being discriminated against blah blah blah. Then after they defeated the proposal, would lapse back into lethargy and preoccupation with other things.

From what little I know of home schooling, I'm all for it. Or at least, all for exploring it further.

[LuFins Dad]

Post 1) Gee, I wonder if I might have something to add to this conversation as a father of a recent grad of Loudoun County Public Schools and the father of a 2-year-old that has to decide between having that child attend school in this district or homeschooling. I also happen to be Christian, but not “out there” so to speak. One who believes in evolution and Sex Ed and thinks both should be taught in schools…

1. LCPS is a tremendous school district. Over a 95% graduation rate and somewhere around 90% of the school graduates well prepared for college. Also, there is extraordinarily low crime rates outside of a 1 mile square in a town called Sterling. I think Aqua used to live there…Like I said, it’s why we live here rather than living in Prince William County with a much nicer house for the money and only a 20 minute longer commute for me for work…

Now here’s the debate, how much of that success is due to this being the wealthiest county in the US? With highly educated and involved parents? I’d say a good bit, but I am also willing to credit the school system.

Now, this school system has had a tremendous amount of success with African American students. They have a HIGHER graduation rate than the 95% average AND African American families median income in the county is above the county’s median income which is the highest in the US.

[Doctor Phibes]

@catseye3 said in Don't reform it. End it.:

When I was a young thing living in Germany, the system there split kids into two groups upon their 17th birthday: You proceeded either to academia or toward trade school. I don't know if that system still exists. I'd be surprised if it did. Maybe Klaus can say.

I thought it was a great idea.

Of course, it would never fly here. Parents would scream that their child, who was really brilliant if you got to know him, was being discriminated against blah blah blah. Then after they defeated the proposal, would lapse back into lethargy and preoccupation with other things.

From what little I know of home schooling, I'm all for it. Or at least, all for exploring it further.

Home schooling is illegal in Germany, as it happens.

[Doctor Phibes]

@lufins-dad said in Don't reform it. End it.:

Post 1) Gee, I wonder if I might have something to add to this conversation as a father of a recent grad of Loudoun County Public Schools and the father of a 2-year-old that has to decide between having that child attend school in this district or homeschooling. I also happen to be Christian, but not “out there” so to speak. One who believes in evolution and Sex Ed and thinks both should be taught in schools…

1. LCPS is a tremendous school district. Over a 95% graduation rate and somewhere around 90% of the school graduates well prepared for college. Also, there is extraordinarily low crime rates outside of a 1 mile square in a town called Sterling. I think Aqua used to live there…Like I said, it’s why we live here rather than living in Prince William County with a much nicer house for the money and only a 20 minute longer commute for me for work…

Now here’s the debate, how much of that success is due to this being the wealthiest county in the US? With highly educated and involved parents? I’d say a good bit, but I am also willing to credit the school system.

Now, this school system has had a tremendous amount of success with African American students. They have a HIGHER graduation rate than the 95% average AND African American families median income in the county is above the county’s median income which is the highest in the US.

We chose where we live based largely due to the reputation of the school system. It's a big deal, and we were very lucky. We essentially chose to live in a considerably smaller house than we could have afforded in other towns in the area so that our kids could go to school here. And now they're fully grown, we're really noticing it.

[Jolly]

Homeschooling runs the gamut from mom at home with one child, to parents banding together to hire a certified teacher (great gig for a retired elementary teacher), to consortiums that combine remote learning with class instruction, especially in subjects like calculus.

This ain't Little House on the Prairie, y'all...

[Doctor Phibes]

@jolly said in Don't reform it. End it.:

This ain't Little House on the Prairie, y'all...

Ms. Ingalls Wilder certainly wrote a lot better than the author of the article you quoted.

I know, unnecessary snark. Still....

[Horace]

It's like nobody attended the same grade schools as I did. Do you think a parent can't provide whatever that was, in terms of information? The teachers at those schools don't depend on their gained knowledge, they depend on text books and lesson plans generated by a community of teachers. What's to stop a parent from relying on those same materials? Are text books impossible to come by? Who on earth thinks your average grade school teacher has some special intelligence about anything other than corralling kids? You still won't find anybody with special intelligence about anything until you're going for a PhD, and then only maybe.