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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Ivermectin. Again.

Ivermectin. Again.

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  • George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #10

    The drug that won't go away:

    Brazil

    Note: This is PRE-VACCINE

    Scribd link: https://www.scribd.com/document/546474996/Prophylacticivermectin-finalmanuscript-december2021#download&from_embed

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • HoraceH Offline
      HoraceH Offline
      Horace
      wrote on last edited by Horace
      #11

      "lol are the citizens of Itajai horses? lol omg lol science lol doofuses." -FDA Public Relations Manager

      Education is extremely important.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

        Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

        KlausK Offline
        KlausK Offline
        Klaus
        wrote on last edited by
        #12

        @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

        Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

        That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

        Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
        • KlausK Klaus

          @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

          Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

          That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

          Aqua LetiferA Offline
          Aqua LetiferA Offline
          Aqua Letifer
          wrote on last edited by Aqua Letifer
          #13

          @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

          @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

          Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

          That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

          Why? Asking goofy, ridiculous questions is a shitload more scientific than refusing to question findings or political statements. And he's not at all wrong about the problem with "trust the science."

          Please love yourself.

          KlausK 1 Reply Last reply
          • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

            @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

            @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

            Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

            That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

            Why? Asking goofy, ridiculous questions is a shitload more scientific than refusing to question findings or political statements. And he's not at all wrong about the problem with "trust the science."

            KlausK Offline
            KlausK Offline
            Klaus
            wrote on last edited by
            #14

            @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

            @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

            @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

            Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

            That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

            Why? Asking goofy, ridiculous questions is a shitload more scientific than refusing to question findings or political statements. And he's not at all wrong about the problem with "trust the science."

            All scientific findings should be questioned, especially if there's reason to do so. But there's a difference between healthy skepticism and full-blown conspiracy theories. The difference is that in the former case you ask critical questions and are open to new evidence and adapt your position correspondingly, whereas in the latter case you shoehorn all evidence into a fixed predetermined model of reality. My impression of him was that he was doing the latter and not the former.

            Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
            • HoraceH Offline
              HoraceH Offline
              Horace
              wrote on last edited by
              #15

              He never espoused "full blown conspiracy theories", the closest he came was to theorize that money and specifically the interests of big pharma has something to do with the reluctance to study Ivermectin.

              Education is extremely important.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • KlausK Klaus

                @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

                That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

                Why? Asking goofy, ridiculous questions is a shitload more scientific than refusing to question findings or political statements. And he's not at all wrong about the problem with "trust the science."

                All scientific findings should be questioned, especially if there's reason to do so. But there's a difference between healthy skepticism and full-blown conspiracy theories. The difference is that in the former case you ask critical questions and are open to new evidence and adapt your position correspondingly, whereas in the latter case you shoehorn all evidence into a fixed predetermined model of reality. My impression of him was that he was doing the latter and not the former.

                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                Aqua Letifer
                wrote on last edited by
                #16

                @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

                That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

                Why? Asking goofy, ridiculous questions is a shitload more scientific than refusing to question findings or political statements. And he's not at all wrong about the problem with "trust the science."

                All scientific findings should be questioned, especially if there's reason to do so. But there's a difference between healthy skepticism and full-blown conspiracy theories. The difference is that in the former case you ask critical questions and are open to new evidence and adapt your position correspondingly, whereas in the latter case you shoehorn all evidence into a fixed predetermined model of reality. My impression of him was that he was doing the latter and not the former.

                I keep listening to his podcast. I don't hear him doing that. The closest he seems to get is in claiming (with anecdotal evidence only, but at least it's not baseless) that there is a coordinated effort to suppress research into ivermectin effectiveness against Sars-cov-2.

                The volume of research is most certainly skewed—any simple keyword search can prove it. But it could be for reasons other than external coercion.

                So, based on evidence, he's making some leaps in conclusion that have yet to be proven true and might be incorrect. I'd hardly call him a kook.

                Please love yourself.

                KlausK 1 Reply Last reply
                • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                  @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                  @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                  @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                  @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                  Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

                  That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

                  Why? Asking goofy, ridiculous questions is a shitload more scientific than refusing to question findings or political statements. And he's not at all wrong about the problem with "trust the science."

                  All scientific findings should be questioned, especially if there's reason to do so. But there's a difference between healthy skepticism and full-blown conspiracy theories. The difference is that in the former case you ask critical questions and are open to new evidence and adapt your position correspondingly, whereas in the latter case you shoehorn all evidence into a fixed predetermined model of reality. My impression of him was that he was doing the latter and not the former.

                  I keep listening to his podcast. I don't hear him doing that. The closest he seems to get is in claiming (with anecdotal evidence only, but at least it's not baseless) that there is a coordinated effort to suppress research into ivermectin effectiveness against Sars-cov-2.

                  The volume of research is most certainly skewed—any simple keyword search can prove it. But it could be for reasons other than external coercion.

                  So, based on evidence, he's making some leaps in conclusion that have yet to be proven true and might be incorrect. I'd hardly call him a kook.

                  KlausK Offline
                  KlausK Offline
                  Klaus
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #17

                  @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                  @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                  @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                  @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                  @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                  Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

                  That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

                  Why? Asking goofy, ridiculous questions is a shitload more scientific than refusing to question findings or political statements. And he's not at all wrong about the problem with "trust the science."

                  All scientific findings should be questioned, especially if there's reason to do so. But there's a difference between healthy skepticism and full-blown conspiracy theories. The difference is that in the former case you ask critical questions and are open to new evidence and adapt your position correspondingly, whereas in the latter case you shoehorn all evidence into a fixed predetermined model of reality. My impression of him was that he was doing the latter and not the former.

                  I keep listening to his podcast. I don't hear him doing that. The closest he seems to get is in claiming (with anecdotal evidence only, but at least it's not baseless) that there is a coordinated effort to suppress research into ivermectin effectiveness against Sars-cov-2.

                  The volume of research is most certainly skewed—any simple keyword search can prove it. But it could be for reasons other than external coercion.

                  So, based on evidence, he's making some leaps in conclusion that have yet to be proven true and might be incorrect. I'd hardly call him a kook.

                  His dubious claims have been documented, e.g., here.

                  LuFins DadL Aqua LetiferA 2 Replies Last reply
                  • KlausK Klaus

                    @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                    @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                    @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                    @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                    @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                    Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

                    That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

                    Why? Asking goofy, ridiculous questions is a shitload more scientific than refusing to question findings or political statements. And he's not at all wrong about the problem with "trust the science."

                    All scientific findings should be questioned, especially if there's reason to do so. But there's a difference between healthy skepticism and full-blown conspiracy theories. The difference is that in the former case you ask critical questions and are open to new evidence and adapt your position correspondingly, whereas in the latter case you shoehorn all evidence into a fixed predetermined model of reality. My impression of him was that he was doing the latter and not the former.

                    I keep listening to his podcast. I don't hear him doing that. The closest he seems to get is in claiming (with anecdotal evidence only, but at least it's not baseless) that there is a coordinated effort to suppress research into ivermectin effectiveness against Sars-cov-2.

                    The volume of research is most certainly skewed—any simple keyword search can prove it. But it could be for reasons other than external coercion.

                    So, based on evidence, he's making some leaps in conclusion that have yet to be proven true and might be incorrect. I'd hardly call him a kook.

                    His dubious claims have been documented, e.g., here.

                    LuFins DadL Offline
                    LuFins DadL Offline
                    LuFins Dad
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #18

                    @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                    @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                    @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                    @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                    @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                    @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                    Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

                    That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

                    Why? Asking goofy, ridiculous questions is a shitload more scientific than refusing to question findings or political statements. And he's not at all wrong about the problem with "trust the science."

                    All scientific findings should be questioned, especially if there's reason to do so. But there's a difference between healthy skepticism and full-blown conspiracy theories. The difference is that in the former case you ask critical questions and are open to new evidence and adapt your position correspondingly, whereas in the latter case you shoehorn all evidence into a fixed predetermined model of reality. My impression of him was that he was doing the latter and not the former.

                    I keep listening to his podcast. I don't hear him doing that. The closest he seems to get is in claiming (with anecdotal evidence only, but at least it's not baseless) that there is a coordinated effort to suppress research into ivermectin effectiveness against Sars-cov-2.

                    The volume of research is most certainly skewed—any simple keyword search can prove it. But it could be for reasons other than external coercion.

                    So, based on evidence, he's making some leaps in conclusion that have yet to be proven true and might be incorrect. I'd hardly call him a kook.

                    His dubious claims have been documented, e.g., here.

                    Klaus, I don’t see them actually documenting anything. I see them making claims and linking to several things about his guests, but I don’t see a transcript, a quote, or a link to a video of Weinstein making the allegations that there alleging. I’m only about a third of the way through, but it hits me as an opinion piece that is extrapolating…

                    The Brad

                    KlausK Aqua LetiferA 2 Replies Last reply
                    • KlausK Klaus

                      @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                      @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                      @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                      @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                      @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                      Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

                      That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

                      Why? Asking goofy, ridiculous questions is a shitload more scientific than refusing to question findings or political statements. And he's not at all wrong about the problem with "trust the science."

                      All scientific findings should be questioned, especially if there's reason to do so. But there's a difference between healthy skepticism and full-blown conspiracy theories. The difference is that in the former case you ask critical questions and are open to new evidence and adapt your position correspondingly, whereas in the latter case you shoehorn all evidence into a fixed predetermined model of reality. My impression of him was that he was doing the latter and not the former.

                      I keep listening to his podcast. I don't hear him doing that. The closest he seems to get is in claiming (with anecdotal evidence only, but at least it's not baseless) that there is a coordinated effort to suppress research into ivermectin effectiveness against Sars-cov-2.

                      The volume of research is most certainly skewed—any simple keyword search can prove it. But it could be for reasons other than external coercion.

                      So, based on evidence, he's making some leaps in conclusion that have yet to be proven true and might be incorrect. I'd hardly call him a kook.

                      His dubious claims have been documented, e.g., here.

                      Aqua LetiferA Offline
                      Aqua LetiferA Offline
                      Aqua Letifer
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #19

                      @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                      @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                      @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                      @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                      @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                      @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                      Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

                      That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

                      Why? Asking goofy, ridiculous questions is a shitload more scientific than refusing to question findings or political statements. And he's not at all wrong about the problem with "trust the science."

                      All scientific findings should be questioned, especially if there's reason to do so. But there's a difference between healthy skepticism and full-blown conspiracy theories. The difference is that in the former case you ask critical questions and are open to new evidence and adapt your position correspondingly, whereas in the latter case you shoehorn all evidence into a fixed predetermined model of reality. My impression of him was that he was doing the latter and not the former.

                      I keep listening to his podcast. I don't hear him doing that. The closest he seems to get is in claiming (with anecdotal evidence only, but at least it's not baseless) that there is a coordinated effort to suppress research into ivermectin effectiveness against Sars-cov-2.

                      The volume of research is most certainly skewed—any simple keyword search can prove it. But it could be for reasons other than external coercion.

                      So, based on evidence, he's making some leaps in conclusion that have yet to be proven true and might be incorrect. I'd hardly call him a kook.

                      His dubious claims have been documented, e.g., here.

                      Yes, you've got your one thing pre-delta wave that you enjoy very much, thank you. If I limited myself to only listening to podcasts from people who are right all the time about everything, I'd have to go out and buy recording equipment.

                      Please love yourself.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                        @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                        @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                        @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                        @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                        @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                        @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                        Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

                        That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

                        Why? Asking goofy, ridiculous questions is a shitload more scientific than refusing to question findings or political statements. And he's not at all wrong about the problem with "trust the science."

                        All scientific findings should be questioned, especially if there's reason to do so. But there's a difference between healthy skepticism and full-blown conspiracy theories. The difference is that in the former case you ask critical questions and are open to new evidence and adapt your position correspondingly, whereas in the latter case you shoehorn all evidence into a fixed predetermined model of reality. My impression of him was that he was doing the latter and not the former.

                        I keep listening to his podcast. I don't hear him doing that. The closest he seems to get is in claiming (with anecdotal evidence only, but at least it's not baseless) that there is a coordinated effort to suppress research into ivermectin effectiveness against Sars-cov-2.

                        The volume of research is most certainly skewed—any simple keyword search can prove it. But it could be for reasons other than external coercion.

                        So, based on evidence, he's making some leaps in conclusion that have yet to be proven true and might be incorrect. I'd hardly call him a kook.

                        His dubious claims have been documented, e.g., here.

                        Klaus, I don’t see them actually documenting anything. I see them making claims and linking to several things about his guests, but I don’t see a transcript, a quote, or a link to a video of Weinstein making the allegations that there alleging. I’m only about a third of the way through, but it hits me as an opinion piece that is extrapolating…

                        KlausK Offline
                        KlausK Offline
                        Klaus
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #20

                        @lufins-dad said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                        a quote,

                        There are many quotes in the text. You doubt that the videos/podcasts actually contain those quotes?

                        Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                        • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                          @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                          @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                          @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                          @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                          @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                          @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                          Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

                          That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

                          Why? Asking goofy, ridiculous questions is a shitload more scientific than refusing to question findings or political statements. And he's not at all wrong about the problem with "trust the science."

                          All scientific findings should be questioned, especially if there's reason to do so. But there's a difference between healthy skepticism and full-blown conspiracy theories. The difference is that in the former case you ask critical questions and are open to new evidence and adapt your position correspondingly, whereas in the latter case you shoehorn all evidence into a fixed predetermined model of reality. My impression of him was that he was doing the latter and not the former.

                          I keep listening to his podcast. I don't hear him doing that. The closest he seems to get is in claiming (with anecdotal evidence only, but at least it's not baseless) that there is a coordinated effort to suppress research into ivermectin effectiveness against Sars-cov-2.

                          The volume of research is most certainly skewed—any simple keyword search can prove it. But it could be for reasons other than external coercion.

                          So, based on evidence, he's making some leaps in conclusion that have yet to be proven true and might be incorrect. I'd hardly call him a kook.

                          His dubious claims have been documented, e.g., here.

                          Klaus, I don’t see them actually documenting anything. I see them making claims and linking to several things about his guests, but I don’t see a transcript, a quote, or a link to a video of Weinstein making the allegations that there alleging. I’m only about a third of the way through, but it hits me as an opinion piece that is extrapolating…

                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                          Aqua Letifer
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #21

                          @lufins-dad said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                          @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                          @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                          @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                          @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                          @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                          @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                          Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

                          That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

                          Why? Asking goofy, ridiculous questions is a shitload more scientific than refusing to question findings or political statements. And he's not at all wrong about the problem with "trust the science."

                          All scientific findings should be questioned, especially if there's reason to do so. But there's a difference between healthy skepticism and full-blown conspiracy theories. The difference is that in the former case you ask critical questions and are open to new evidence and adapt your position correspondingly, whereas in the latter case you shoehorn all evidence into a fixed predetermined model of reality. My impression of him was that he was doing the latter and not the former.

                          I keep listening to his podcast. I don't hear him doing that. The closest he seems to get is in claiming (with anecdotal evidence only, but at least it's not baseless) that there is a coordinated effort to suppress research into ivermectin effectiveness against Sars-cov-2.

                          The volume of research is most certainly skewed—any simple keyword search can prove it. But it could be for reasons other than external coercion.

                          So, based on evidence, he's making some leaps in conclusion that have yet to be proven true and might be incorrect. I'd hardly call him a kook.

                          His dubious claims have been documented, e.g., here.

                          Klaus, I don’t see them actually documenting anything. I see them making claims and linking to several things about his guests, but I don’t see a transcript, a quote, or a link to a video of Weinstein making the allegations that there alleging. I’m only about a third of the way through, but it hits me as an opinion piece that is extrapolating…

                          It's not as zany as the article makes it out to be. None of it is.

                          Weinstein's right: Ivermectin is a third rail topic. You can talk about Vitamin D and cardio vs COVID without any trouble (probably because there's no associated Trump sound byte), but never mention the horse paste. If you do you're one of THOSE.

                          Please love yourself.

                          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                          • KlausK Klaus

                            @lufins-dad said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                            a quote,

                            There are many quotes in the text. You doubt that the videos/podcasts actually contain those quotes?

                            Aqua LetiferA Offline
                            Aqua LetiferA Offline
                            Aqua Letifer
                            wrote on last edited by Aqua Letifer
                            #22

                            @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                            @lufins-dad said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                            a quote,

                            There are many quotes in the text. You doubt that the videos/podcasts actually contain those quotes?

                            He and his guests offered the claim that ivermectin is “99 percent effective” in treating COVID-19; that it could be used as a prophylaxis against infection; and that were it widely used, the pandemic would end in “a month.”

                            Based on the above, which quote should be attributed to which speaker?

                            "He AND his guests" is disingenuous at best. What evidence does he provide for universal agreement? None.

                            Please love yourself.

                            LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
                            • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                              @lufins-dad said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                              @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                              @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                              @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                              @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                              @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                              @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                              Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

                              That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

                              Why? Asking goofy, ridiculous questions is a shitload more scientific than refusing to question findings or political statements. And he's not at all wrong about the problem with "trust the science."

                              All scientific findings should be questioned, especially if there's reason to do so. But there's a difference between healthy skepticism and full-blown conspiracy theories. The difference is that in the former case you ask critical questions and are open to new evidence and adapt your position correspondingly, whereas in the latter case you shoehorn all evidence into a fixed predetermined model of reality. My impression of him was that he was doing the latter and not the former.

                              I keep listening to his podcast. I don't hear him doing that. The closest he seems to get is in claiming (with anecdotal evidence only, but at least it's not baseless) that there is a coordinated effort to suppress research into ivermectin effectiveness against Sars-cov-2.

                              The volume of research is most certainly skewed—any simple keyword search can prove it. But it could be for reasons other than external coercion.

                              So, based on evidence, he's making some leaps in conclusion that have yet to be proven true and might be incorrect. I'd hardly call him a kook.

                              His dubious claims have been documented, e.g., here.

                              Klaus, I don’t see them actually documenting anything. I see them making claims and linking to several things about his guests, but I don’t see a transcript, a quote, or a link to a video of Weinstein making the allegations that there alleging. I’m only about a third of the way through, but it hits me as an opinion piece that is extrapolating…

                              It's not as zany as the article makes it out to be. None of it is.

                              Weinstein's right: Ivermectin is a third rail topic. You can talk about Vitamin D and cardio vs COVID without any trouble (probably because there's no associated Trump sound byte), but never mention the horse paste. If you do you're one of THOSE.

                              HoraceH Offline
                              HoraceH Offline
                              Horace
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #23

                              @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                              @lufins-dad said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                              @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                              @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                              @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                              @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                              @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                              @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                              Like Weinstein said, the problem with "trust the science" is the "the" qualifier.

                              That's true, but I must say that my appreciation of B. Weinstein has lessened quite a bit during COVID.

                              Why? Asking goofy, ridiculous questions is a shitload more scientific than refusing to question findings or political statements. And he's not at all wrong about the problem with "trust the science."

                              All scientific findings should be questioned, especially if there's reason to do so. But there's a difference between healthy skepticism and full-blown conspiracy theories. The difference is that in the former case you ask critical questions and are open to new evidence and adapt your position correspondingly, whereas in the latter case you shoehorn all evidence into a fixed predetermined model of reality. My impression of him was that he was doing the latter and not the former.

                              I keep listening to his podcast. I don't hear him doing that. The closest he seems to get is in claiming (with anecdotal evidence only, but at least it's not baseless) that there is a coordinated effort to suppress research into ivermectin effectiveness against Sars-cov-2.

                              The volume of research is most certainly skewed—any simple keyword search can prove it. But it could be for reasons other than external coercion.

                              So, based on evidence, he's making some leaps in conclusion that have yet to be proven true and might be incorrect. I'd hardly call him a kook.

                              His dubious claims have been documented, e.g., here.

                              Klaus, I don’t see them actually documenting anything. I see them making claims and linking to several things about his guests, but I don’t see a transcript, a quote, or a link to a video of Weinstein making the allegations that there alleging. I’m only about a third of the way through, but it hits me as an opinion piece that is extrapolating…

                              It's not as zany as the article makes it out to be. None of it is.

                              Weinstein's right: Ivermectin is a third rail topic. You can talk about Vitamin D and cardio vs COVID without any trouble (probably because there's no associated Trump sound byte), but never mention the horse paste. If you do you're one of THOSE.

                              Yep. Trump + Conspiracy Theory = Ivermectin = No More Dinner Party Invites

                              Education is extremely important.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                                @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                                @lufins-dad said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                                a quote,

                                There are many quotes in the text. You doubt that the videos/podcasts actually contain those quotes?

                                He and his guests offered the claim that ivermectin is “99 percent effective” in treating COVID-19; that it could be used as a prophylaxis against infection; and that were it widely used, the pandemic would end in “a month.”

                                Based on the above, which quote should be attributed to which speaker?

                                "He AND his guests" is disingenuous at best. What evidence does he provide for universal agreement? None.

                                LuFins DadL Offline
                                LuFins DadL Offline
                                LuFins Dad
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #24

                                @aqua-letifer said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                                @klaus said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                                @lufins-dad said in Ivermectin. Again.:

                                a quote,

                                There are many quotes in the text. You doubt that the videos/podcasts actually contain those quotes?

                                He and his guests offered the claim that ivermectin is “99 percent effective” in treating COVID-19; that it could be used as a prophylaxis against infection; and that were it widely used, the pandemic would end in “a month.”

                                Based on the above, which quote should be attributed to which speaker?

                                "He AND his guests" is disingenuous at best. What evidence does he provide for universal agreement? None.

                                “On the same podcast, he and his guests argued that the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines authorized for use in the United States, as well as the AstraZeneca adenovirus-vector vaccine, are so unsafe that the vaccinated are secretly dropping like flies from their effects. He also has avowed, on both the podcast and his Twitter feed, his trust in a UK physician named Tess Lawrie who has published a phenomenally insane paper that calls COVID-19 vaccines “unsafe for human use.” The paper advises that “Preparation should now be made to scale up humanitarian efforts to assist those harmed by the COVID-19 vaccines.”

                                Again, I’m not seeing the cite or the quote from Weinstein arguing that the vaccines were unsafe. I would like to see his exact words. Also, if he has avowed trust in the UK professor, that does not equate approval or agreement with the “phenomenally insane” paper.

                                The Brad

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • KlausK Offline
                                  KlausK Offline
                                  Klaus
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #25

                                  Well, I have no intention to change anyone’s mind here. I’m just saying that I used to find him interesting, but he lost my respect in the last year and I stopped following him.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • HoraceH Offline
                                    HoraceH Offline
                                    Horace
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #26

                                    It's not really possible to change the minds of Trumpist conspiracy theorists. What you must change, is their hearts. And good luck with that - considering what little heart they have to change. It would be like trying to fill a canvas with a drop of paint.

                                    #FuckTrump

                                    Education is extremely important.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • George KG Offline
                                      George KG Offline
                                      George K
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #27

                                      https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788253?guestAccessKey=b6b4b608-51b4-4017-991c-0b1426c801e2&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=011322

                                      Results
                                      Of 5939 ivermectin prescriptions, 348 (5.9%) were excluded. Of the remaining 5591 prescriptions, 4700 (84.1%) were for privately insured patients. Mean patient age was 51.8 years (SD, 15.7 years) (Table 1).

                                      Among ivermectin prescriptions, mean (SD) out-of-pocket spending was $22.48 ($24.78) for privately insured patients and $13.78 ($26.24) for Medicare Advantage patients; mean insurer reimbursement was $35.75 ($50.63) and $39.13 ($40.18), respectively; and mean total spending was $58.23 ($51.47) and $52.91 ($42.47), respectively. Aggregate total spending was $273 681.00 for privately insured patients and $47 142.81 for Medicare Advantage patients, of which insurer reimbursement represented 61.4% and 74.0%, respectively (Table 2).

                                      In the week of August 13, 2021, private and Medicare plans paid an estimated $1 568 996.00 (43 888 × $35.75) and $924 720.16 (23 632 × $39.13) for ivermectin prescriptions for COVID-19. The weekly total of $2 493 716.16 extrapolated to $129 673 240.30 annually.

                                      Discussion
                                      Findings suggest that insurers heavily subsidized the costs of ivermectin prescriptions for COVID-19, even though economic theory holds that insurers should not cover ineffective care.4 Wasteful insurer spending on these prescriptions, estimated at $2.5 million in the week of August 13, 2021, would extrapolate to $129.7 million annually. For perspective, this total exceeds estimated annual Medicare spending on unnecessary imaging for low back pain, a low-value service that has received extensive attention.5 The true amount of waste is even higher because estimates did not include Medicaid spending. Moreover, by reducing barriers to a drug that some individuals use as a substitute for COVID-19 vaccination or other evidence-based care, insurance coverage could increase spending for COVID-19 complications.

                                      Limitations of this study include unclear generalizability to all private and Medicare plans. Despite this, findings suggest insurers could prevent substantial waste by restricting ivermectin coverage; for example, by requiring prior authorization. Although these restrictions might impede ivermectin use for non–COVID-19 indications, low prepandemic levels of dispensing suggest this use is infrequent.2 Consequently, the restrictions could reduce wasteful spending, and the number of patients who would experience barriers to evidence-based treatment for ivermectin would be small.

                                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • JollyJ Offline
                                        JollyJ Offline
                                        Jolly
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #28

                                        Don't like restrictions on off-label use. That's a doc decision, especially if it's as cheap as Ivermectin.

                                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                        AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • LarryL Offline
                                          LarryL Offline
                                          Larry
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #29

                                          How easily some are swayed.... there was a time when free and open discussion was encouraged. Now, f you dare speak anything that doesn't fit The Narrative, you will be mocked, cancelled, ridiculed.... we are being conditioned to accept that if we even think things not endorsed by The Narrative we will be punished, and if we dare to actually DO something that doesn't fit The Narrative, we will be persecuted, hunted down, punished, etc.

                                          And some of us are all too happy to jump on that bandwagon lest you too are made to look foolish or otherwise not be accepted by the "superior tribe".

                                          I don't care if someone suggests eating rat shit will cure something. Discuss it, check it out, see where it leads, and fuck The Narrative.

                                          Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
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