Biles bails at the Olympics
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wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 03:55 last edited by
You want winners or just competitors? Karolyi's methods may have been harsh, but for the time and the place, he took a laughing-stock of a program and transformed it into one of the very best in the world. The USMC used some methods that bordered on the sadistic during WW2, as did the German SS, which created two of the finest combat forces ever seen in modern times. I have no doubt in my mind, if WW2 were fought today, we would lose. We simply do not have the fortitude and the ability to suffer, in order to reach a worthwhile goal.
Now...
The sexual abuse of girls was horrible and even whispers of it should not have been down-played, but what does that have to do with Biles decision to withdraw?
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wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 03:56 last edited by
I must confess I have no opinion about Ms Biles.
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wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 03:59 last edited by
It seems parsimonious, explanatory, non judgmental, and in keeping with Ms Biles own words, to chalk it up to a mental breakdown. What more needs to be said?
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It seems parsimonious, explanatory, non judgmental, and in keeping with Ms Biles own words, to chalk it up to a mental breakdown. What more needs to be said?
wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 04:14 last edited by@horace said in Biles bails at the Olympics:
It seems parsimonious, explanatory, non judgmental, and in keeping with Ms Biles own words, to chalk it up to a mental breakdown. What more needs to be said?
Yup. She was prominently featured in numerous advertisements and oodles of people taking hyperbole to a new level regarding her skills.
While she seemed to do well in that rare air in the past, something happened this time. Because of the nature of what is done, she made the right decision to withdraw.
I suspect if she thought this was a likely event, she would never have even tried to compete. Unlike throwing a football or running a race, there's a very good chance for significant injury doing those flips and twists in the air.
Why did this happen? What was different this time? Hard to know. Sometimes life hits us with a freight train, and we can brush it off. Next time, it seems like something minor - but it knocks us down. Wish her well. It's crap to let people down - and with the whole world watching - but it happens.
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You want winners or just competitors? Karolyi's methods may have been harsh, but for the time and the place, he took a laughing-stock of a program and transformed it into one of the very best in the world. The USMC used some methods that bordered on the sadistic during WW2, as did the German SS, which created two of the finest combat forces ever seen in modern times. I have no doubt in my mind, if WW2 were fought today, we would lose. We simply do not have the fortitude and the ability to suffer, in order to reach a worthwhile goal.
Now...
The sexual abuse of girls was horrible and even whispers of it should not have been down-played, but what does that have to do with Biles decision to withdraw?
wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 10:17 last edited by@jolly said in Biles bails at the Olympics:
You want winners or just competitors? Karolyi's methods may have been harsh, but for the time and the place, he took a laughing-stock of a program and transformed it into one of the very best in the world. The USMC used some methods that bordered on the sadistic during WW2, as did the German SS, which created two of the finest combat forces ever seen in modern times. I have no doubt in my mind, if WW2 were fought today, we would lose. We simply do not have the fortitude and the ability to suffer, in order to reach a worthwhile goal.
Now...
The sexual abuse of girls was horrible and even whispers of it should not have been down-played, but what does that have to do with Biles decision to withdraw?
I just bring it up to point out what feels like a general shift in the culture of elite gymnastics, from girls being dominated by their coaches and basically being washed up by the age of 18 or 19, to women who are finding their voices and training in healthier environments that helps allow their careers to extend into their 20s.
As to the Karolyis. . .yes, their methods produced a lot of champions, and even some of their older athletes admit they could not have gotten as far without the type of training they provided. But the culture of US gymnastics was rotten during their times, and I'm glad it seems we've moved away from that.
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wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 11:18 last edited by
Not very far into their 20's. I referenced Ross just a few days ago...She was good into her early twenties, but size and age caught up with her. There is a reason that the very best female gymnasts tend to be pretty young.
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wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 11:52 last edited by
True, and the "into their 20s" elite competitors are definitely more the exception. But they give old gymnasts like me hope
Actually, I stopped going to my adult gymnastics class right before the pandemic, and unfortunately it looks like the gym I went to no longer offers adult classes (Kelli Hill's gym, which trained Dominique Dawes).A few months ago I started getting videos in my Facebook feed for Chellsie Memmel, who years after retiring and now a mother of 2 has decided to start training and competing again. Her training videos are really great to watch. So impressive to see a return to that level of fitness after many years away, and now in her 30s.
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wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 11:58 last edited by George K
Gymnastics superstar and defending Olympic champion Simone Biles has withdrawn from Thursday's individual all-around competition at the Tokyo Games to focus on her mental well-being.
The decision comes a day after Biles removed herself from the team final following one rotation, on vault. She cited her mental health as the reason when speaking to the media following the competition.
An interesting look at this from the RWEC. Here's a distilled version, which sort of points out what @Optimistic was saying:
The point missing from all this is that Biles’s lack of focus had already almost caused a severe injury. Various gymnasts and experts in the sport have spent the past day trying to explain to laymen how frightening Biles’s botched vault on Tuesday was:
Gymnasts call what she experienced “the twisties,” where essentially you lose your muscle memory of how to orient yourself in space relative to the floor to ensure that you’ll land safely. It sounds a bit like vertigo. Think of a baseball player getting “the yips,” where suddenly he can’t make short routine throws anymore and loses confidence in his basic skills. In Biles’s case, the yips potentially means corkscrewing through the air with the force of several G’s and landing on your neck.
The proper analogy isn’t to a basketball or even a football player deciding not to play due to a bout of anxiety under pressure. It’s more like a trapeze artist deciding not to perform. If you’ve suddenly lost your confidence in your ability to judge where the trapeze bars are in space, then … yeah, you might want to sit it out. The consequence of poor performance won’t be an airball or a fumble, it’ll be death potentially. That’s not hypothetical: Philip Klein notes the case today of an American gymnast who misstepped during a vault, hit the vaulting horse head-on, and ended up paraplegic before eventually dying at age 18.
With the stakes that high, Biles couldn’t just “tough it out” the way, say, Michael Jordan with the flu could. And as many have pointed out today on Twitter, didn’t Jordan himself spend several years away from basketball after his father was murdered to recover from his grief? He knows what it’s like not to be able to perform up to your expectations when you’re distracted.
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Gymnastics superstar and defending Olympic champion Simone Biles has withdrawn from Thursday's individual all-around competition at the Tokyo Games to focus on her mental well-being.
The decision comes a day after Biles removed herself from the team final following one rotation, on vault. She cited her mental health as the reason when speaking to the media following the competition.
An interesting look at this from the RWEC. Here's a distilled version, which sort of points out what @Optimistic was saying:
The point missing from all this is that Biles’s lack of focus had already almost caused a severe injury. Various gymnasts and experts in the sport have spent the past day trying to explain to laymen how frightening Biles’s botched vault on Tuesday was:
Gymnasts call what she experienced “the twisties,” where essentially you lose your muscle memory of how to orient yourself in space relative to the floor to ensure that you’ll land safely. It sounds a bit like vertigo. Think of a baseball player getting “the yips,” where suddenly he can’t make short routine throws anymore and loses confidence in his basic skills. In Biles’s case, the yips potentially means corkscrewing through the air with the force of several G’s and landing on your neck.
The proper analogy isn’t to a basketball or even a football player deciding not to play due to a bout of anxiety under pressure. It’s more like a trapeze artist deciding not to perform. If you’ve suddenly lost your confidence in your ability to judge where the trapeze bars are in space, then … yeah, you might want to sit it out. The consequence of poor performance won’t be an airball or a fumble, it’ll be death potentially. That’s not hypothetical: Philip Klein notes the case today of an American gymnast who misstepped during a vault, hit the vaulting horse head-on, and ended up paraplegic before eventually dying at age 18.
With the stakes that high, Biles couldn’t just “tough it out” the way, say, Michael Jordan with the flu could. And as many have pointed out today on Twitter, didn’t Jordan himself spend several years away from basketball after his father was murdered to recover from his grief? He knows what it’s like not to be able to perform up to your expectations when you’re distracted.
wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 12:12 last edited by@george-k Yeah, those sum it up really well. The mind-blowing difficulty level of her skills in particular, even compared to many other elite gymnasts, means that being the slightest bit off can be a catastrophic injury. Most other sports analogies just don't compare.
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Here's a list of those conservative right-wing 'talkers':
Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
Piers Morgan
Amber Athey
John Daniel Davidson
Charlie KirkThese peoples' remarks are truly horrendous. One of them -- don't ask me which one, I can't stand the idea of going back and looking for it -- said Biles brought 'shame to America'. No, you atrocious little insect, it's not Biles bringing shame to America, it's you and your spirit of vileness.
Go here for the deets if you can stand it: https://www.thedailybeast.com/right-wing-media-attacks-weak-simone-biles-selfish-sociopath
wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 12:53 last edited by Doctor Phibes@catseye3 said in Biles bails at the Olympics:
Here's a list of those conservative right-wing 'talkers':
Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
Piers Morgan
Amber Athey
John Daniel Davidson
Charlie Kirk
These peoples' remarks are truly horrendous. One of them -- don't ask me which one, I can't stand the idea of going back and looking for it -- said Biles brought 'shame to America'. No, you atrocious little insect, it's not Biles bringing shame to America, it's you and your spirit of vileness.Piers Morgan isn't American. He is, however, a pudgy little cunt. I may have mentioned this in earlier discussions.
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wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 13:13 last edited by
I don't really understand why these professional trolls can't give Biles the benefit of the doubt.
Other than the fact that they're a bunch of cunts, of course.
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wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 13:18 last edited by Mik
@jon-nyc said in Biles bails at the Olympics:
I must confess I have no opinion about Ms Biles.
Yep. I see her as neither courageous nor cowardly. She just did what she did. I have no reliable knowledge of her personality or her mental or emotional state.
As far as her detractors, the only one I have ever heard of is Piers Morgan. I suspect the rest of them are simply clamoring for attention. All this stuff would not have brought a single whisper had it been a lesser known Olympian.
Nothing but clickbait.
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Gymnastics superstar and defending Olympic champion Simone Biles has withdrawn from Thursday's individual all-around competition at the Tokyo Games to focus on her mental well-being.
The decision comes a day after Biles removed herself from the team final following one rotation, on vault. She cited her mental health as the reason when speaking to the media following the competition.
An interesting look at this from the RWEC. Here's a distilled version, which sort of points out what @Optimistic was saying:
The point missing from all this is that Biles’s lack of focus had already almost caused a severe injury. Various gymnasts and experts in the sport have spent the past day trying to explain to laymen how frightening Biles’s botched vault on Tuesday was:
Gymnasts call what she experienced “the twisties,” where essentially you lose your muscle memory of how to orient yourself in space relative to the floor to ensure that you’ll land safely. It sounds a bit like vertigo. Think of a baseball player getting “the yips,” where suddenly he can’t make short routine throws anymore and loses confidence in his basic skills. In Biles’s case, the yips potentially means corkscrewing through the air with the force of several G’s and landing on your neck.
The proper analogy isn’t to a basketball or even a football player deciding not to play due to a bout of anxiety under pressure. It’s more like a trapeze artist deciding not to perform. If you’ve suddenly lost your confidence in your ability to judge where the trapeze bars are in space, then … yeah, you might want to sit it out. The consequence of poor performance won’t be an airball or a fumble, it’ll be death potentially. That’s not hypothetical: Philip Klein notes the case today of an American gymnast who misstepped during a vault, hit the vaulting horse head-on, and ended up paraplegic before eventually dying at age 18.
With the stakes that high, Biles couldn’t just “tough it out” the way, say, Michael Jordan with the flu could. And as many have pointed out today on Twitter, didn’t Jordan himself spend several years away from basketball after his father was murdered to recover from his grief? He knows what it’s like not to be able to perform up to your expectations when you’re distracted.
wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 13:21 last edited byOne former US elite gymnast I talked to said that if it was someone other than Simone Biles who had made that same error, they would have certainly blown a knee, at minimum. Another said if it had happened to her instead of Simone, "I probably would have ended up paralyzed".
Most non-gymnastics fans do not understand the seriousness of what happened because she landed on her feet. Every elite gymnast I've talked to has said that Simone Biles' vault was TERRIFYING and it's a miracle she put that vault to her feet & avoided seriously injuring herself.
I see they are bringing out the heavy duty rhetoric to defend Ms Biles. So deliciously non-verifiable and emotionally compelling. Who could argue?
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wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 13:23 last edited by
She could be going through anything - we genuinely have no idea one way or the other.
But if she is having mental health problems, I can't see that a bunch of mediocrities decrying her online is going to help much.
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She could be going through anything - we genuinely have no idea one way or the other.
But if she is having mental health problems, I can't see that a bunch of mediocrities decrying her online is going to help much.
wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 13:29 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Biles bails at the Olympics:
She could be going through anything - we genuinely have no idea one way or the other.
But if she is having mental health problems, I can't see that a bunch of mediocrities decrying her online is going to help much.
Yes, those people expressing anger at their Olympic star suffering an emotional breakdown at the worst possible time, are bad. Actually I distrust any adult man with an emotional connection to women's gymnastics. And yes, Simone had a breakdown. It's unfortunate she didn't retire before the competition, but she clearly wasn't predicting that this would happen.
However I again fail to require a fainting couch at either the incident or the reaction.
Perhaps this will cause people to once again re-evaluate their understanding of all of human existence. Like vaccination rates being less than 100% have been revelatory for some.
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@doctor-phibes said in Biles bails at the Olympics:
She could be going through anything - we genuinely have no idea one way or the other.
But if she is having mental health problems, I can't see that a bunch of mediocrities decrying her online is going to help much.
Yes, those people expressing anger at their Olympic star suffering an emotional breakdown at the worst possible time, are bad. Actually I distrust any adult man with an emotional connection to women's gymnastics. And yes, Simone had a breakdown. It's unfortunate she didn't retire before the competition, but she clearly wasn't predicting that this would happen.
However I again fail to require a fainting couch at either the incident or the reaction.
Perhaps this will cause people to once again re-evaluate their understanding of all of human existence. Like vaccination rates being less than 100% have been revelatory for some.
wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 13:36 last edited by Doctor Phibes@horace said in Biles bails at the Olympics:
Actually I distrust any adult man with an emotional connection to women's gymnastics.
I'd be quite willing to bet money that Piers Morgan didn't give a fuck about it until a black American woman did something he doesn't approve of.
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@horace said in Biles bails at the Olympics:
Actually I distrust any adult man with an emotional connection to women's gymnastics.
I'd be quite willing to bet money that Piers Morgan didn't give a fuck about it until a black American woman did something he doesn't approve of.
wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 13:38 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Biles bails at the Olympics:
@horace said in Biles bails at the Olympics:
Actually I distrust any adult man with an emotional connection to women's gymnastics.
I'd be quite willing to bet money that Piers Morgan didn't give a fuck about it until a black American woman did something he doesn't approve of.
I am sure the race narrative will be wielded here at some point. Maybe in some cases it will even reflect some truth.
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@catseye3 said in Biles bails at the Olympics:
Here's a list of those conservative right-wing 'talkers':
Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
Piers Morgan
Amber Athey
John Daniel Davidson
Charlie Kirk
These peoples' remarks are truly horrendous. One of them -- don't ask me which one, I can't stand the idea of going back and looking for it -- said Biles brought 'shame to America'. No, you atrocious little insect, it's not Biles bringing shame to America, it's you and your spirit of vileness.Piers Morgan isn't American. He is, however, a pudgy little cunt. I may have mentioned this in earlier discussions.
wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 13:59 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Biles bails at the Olympics:
Piers Morgan isn't American. He is, however, a pudgy little cunt. I may have mentioned this in earlier discussions.
Yes, I thought of you when I included his name. <G>
I wavered between neutral and mildly disapproving, fueled largely by ignorance. Thanks to Omni and to George's sources, I have a better understanding now. Like Mik said, she did what she did. If these people are correct, she had the choice of quitting versus bulling through and risking her life or serious debilitating injury. No choice, really.
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wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 14:01 last edited by
Mental issues really shouldn't be that big a deal - just look at Piers Morgan, and how he manages to maintain a successful media presence despite suffering from a crippling personality disorder.
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wrote on 29 Jul 2021, 15:29 last edited by
I love how we've politicized a gymnast deciding not to compete at the Olympics. What the actual fuck.
