Senator Paul, you do not know what you are talking about.
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I wonder if that was the same kind of verbal tactic that Rand Paul used in his disagreement with his neighbour.
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Who cares? Fauci's toast.
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Ann Althouse comments:
If you click through to Weinstein's series of tweets, you'll read a very sensible interpretation that seems right to me:
My read on this is different. Fauci is a system creature which entails responsibilities that may take him into biowarfare. I see him as saying “You’re outside the system. This is some set of super complicated relationships I have to manage. And I act properly within that sphere.”
I hear Rand Paul saying “I don’t don’t bow down to the system you live within. I am here to call it into question: did NIH do something as psychotic as fund GoFR in our strategic rival’s Wuhan Lab??”
I hear Fauci saying “This is part of a large strategy. You can’t break it out!”
Then I hear RP saying: “I’m a US Senator & MD who doesn’t believe in your system’s grand strategy of funding Gain of Function through the CCP as part of 12D chess. Answer the F’ing Question, Doctor.”
Fauci says “I don’t have to take this sh-t. We evaded this issue technically.”
Paul insinuates “You may have a lot of blood on your hands Dr. As SARS CoV-2 most likely came from the lab you and NIH funded.”
Fauci: “There are MANY things that would HAVE to be true for that wild of an accusation to tie me and NIH to COVID-19, and you don’t have them. F off.”
Essentially, Paul is outraged by the 12D chess official system and wants to break out one question. Fauci wants to protect that system which probably believes that it’s safer to be in bed w/ CCP than to be shut out. Fauci is playing dumb on GoFR and Rand is insinuating too much.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@george-k said in Senator Paul, you do not know what you are talking about.:
Ann Althouse comments:
If you click through to Weinstein's series of tweets, you'll read a very sensible interpretation that seems right to me:
My read on this is different. Fauci is a system creature which entails responsibilities that may take him into biowarfare. I see him as saying “You’re outside the system. This is some set of super complicated relationships I have to manage. And I act properly within that sphere.”
I hear Rand Paul saying “I don’t don’t bow down to the system you live within. I am here to call it into question: did NIH do something as psychotic as fund GoFR in our strategic rival’s Wuhan Lab??”
I hear Fauci saying “This is part of a large strategy. You can’t break it out!”
Then I hear RP saying: “I’m a US Senator & MD who doesn’t believe in your system’s grand strategy of funding Gain of Function through the CCP as part of 12D chess. Answer the F’ing Question, Doctor.”
Fauci says “I don’t have to take this sh-t. We evaded this issue technically.”
Paul insinuates “You may have a lot of blood on your hands Dr. As SARS CoV-2 most likely came from the lab you and NIH funded.”
Fauci: “There are MANY things that would HAVE to be true for that wild of an accusation to tie me and NIH to COVID-19, and you don’t have them. F off.”
Essentially, Paul is outraged by the 12D chess official system and wants to break out one question. Fauci wants to protect that system which probably believes that it’s safer to be in bed w/ CCP than to be shut out. Fauci is playing dumb on GoFR and Rand is insinuating too much.
So Fauci was lying, but he had reasons. So sayeth the smartest person in the world.
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Josh Rogin at the Washington Post has an article today:
"What the fight between Anthony Fauci and Rand Paul is really about"More than 18 months into the coronavirus pandemic, our government leaders still can’t manage to have a rational conversation about a crucial public health question: How did the covid-19 crisis begin? While our leaders bicker, we are losing sight of the urgent need to fully investigate the origins of the coronavirus outbreak, including a full investigation of the labs in Wuhan, China.
Tuesday’s yelling match between Anthony S. Fauci, the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) brought the origins issue back into the public eye in the worst possible way. This was not the pair’s first public fight on the matter, and both men came prepared to do battle. But their clash was all heat and no light. They got bogged down in a technical and irrelevant debate over whether the bat coronavirus research the National Institutes of Health funded in Wuhan qualifies as “gain of function” research.
Paul, who believes the evidence points to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), the world’s leading bat coronavirus lab, as the source of the outbreak, pressed Fauci about a scientific paper by WIV’s head bat researcher, Shi Zhengli. Arguing that her work modifying viruses to make them more transmissible to humans constitutes “gain of function research,” he accused Fauci of lying to Congress, a federal crime.
Fauci insisted that it “was judged by qualified staff up and down the chain as not being gain of function.” He was using a specific definition crafted by the Department of Health and Human Services in 2017 when the Obama administration’s pause on gain of function research was lifted. “And Senator Paul, you do not know what you are talking about, quite frankly,” Fauci added.
Paul responded by accusing Fauci of “trying to obscure responsibility for 4 million people dying around the world.” Fauci called Paul a liar. The exchange ended with each side declaring victory.
Both men were playing to the cameras, but many scientists think Paul actually does know what he’s talking about. One of them is Rutgers University microbiologist and biosafety expert Richard Ebright, whom Paul quoted as saying this research “matches, indeed epitomizes the definition of gain of function research.”
Other scientists, even those who believe the lab leak theory likely, argue that Fauci is technically correct, although they note that the official definition is so narrow it enables anyone to avoid the review process Fauci himself helped to establish. In other words, if the oversight system for reviewing risky research is almost never used, what good is it?
But it doesn’t matter which “gain of function” definition you prefer. What everyone can now see clearly is that NIH was collaborating on risky research with a Chinese lab that has zero transparency and zero accountability during a crisis — and no one in a position of power addressed that risk. Fauci is arguing the system worked. It didn’t. Even if the lab leak theory isn’t true, what’s clear is that we need more oversight of this risky research, both in the United States and in China.
Fauci also told Paul there’s no possibility the research in the paper Paul cited directly led to the SARS-CoV-2 virus, but Paul correctly called this out as a straw man. That specific project was only one element of the U.S. government multiagency effort that for years pumped U.S. money and know-how into these Wuhan labs, via the EcoHealth Alliance, including NIH, USAID and the Pentagon. According to an intelligence fact sheet released by the Trump administration and partially confirmed by the Biden administration, the WIV took our help and used it to build another, secret part of the lab, where they worked with the Chinese military.
Congress and the media would be derelict not to examine the decisions by Fauci and others that led to this collaboration. But rather than respond with openness and transparency, Fauci has consistently thrown cold water on the lab leak theory. Right now, NIH and other government agencies are ignoring congressional requests for more information about their relationships with these Chinese labs.
This matters right now because the World Health Organization is starting a second attempt to investigate the origins of the outbreak, this time including a call to investigate the labs. Meanwhile, the Chinese government is insisting that it will never allow a real investigation into the Wuhan lab. It will be up to the U.S. government to lead the campaign to pressure Beijing to play ball.
Looking ahead, we must question whether U.S. government investment in this risky research, especially in collaboration with China, is worth these risks. Certainly, the current plan to spend $1.2 billion to drastically expand the initiative known as the Global Virome Project, an effort to dig up dangerous viruses and experiment on them in labs, including labs in China, must be totally reexamined.
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@george-k said in Senator Paul, you do not know what you are talking about.:
But their clash was all heat and no light.
It's important to preface it that way, before essentially agreeing with Dr Paul throughout the rest of the piece. We are talking about the WaPo readership, after all.
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Never forget, Fauci is not a virologist.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
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According to one epidemiologist I’ve heard, Gain of Function has been obsolete for over a decade now. There is no need to track possible pathways for a virus to travel when it’s DNA can be mapped within a couple of weeks and mRNA vaccines can be created within a couple of months. There is no longer a reasonable purpose for this type of research (if there ever was).
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@axtremus said in Senator Paul, you do not know what you are talking about.:
@jolly said in Senator Paul, you do not know what you are talking about.:
Never forget, Fauci is not a virologist.
Is Rand Paul?
Rand Paul is an M.D., not director of NIAID. Interestingly enough, Paul has actually worked as a doctor and treated patients, whereas Fauci has never done retail medicine. OTOH, Redfield, who is a virologist, thinks Fauci has ignored the lab leak explanation from the start, for reasons known only to Fauci.
What we do know, is that Fauci sent money to China for gain of function research. We also know that Fauci was well aware of the risk of such research and was perfectly willing to let people die, if a virus escaped, since he thought the research was that important.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@jolly said in Senator Paul, you do not know what you are talking about.:
We also know that Fauci was well aware of the risk of such research and was perfectly willing to let people die, if a virus escaped, since he thought the research was that important.
Just to save y'all the trouble: https://nypost.com/2021/05/28/fauci-once-argued-viral-experiments-worth-the-risk-of-pandemic/
In the article, first reported by The Australian, Fauci also noted that a pause on such studies should continue until researchers can figure out how to do them more transparently.
Gain-of-function experiments are the sort of work that was being conducted at the Wuhan Institute of Virology when the COVID-19 pandemic first started in China in late 2019 and some experts fear a lab accident is what led to the global outbreak that killed 3.4 million.
In the 2012 paper, Fauci acknowledged the risky research could lead to serious lab accidents but the chance is rare and the work is “important” because it helps the scientific community prepare for naturally occurring pandemics.
“In an unlikely but conceivable turn of events, what if that scientist becomes infected with the virus, which leads to an outbreak and ultimately triggers a pandemic?” he wrote at the time.
“Many ask reasonable questions: given the possibility of such a scenario – however remote – should the initial experiments have been performed and/or published in the first place, and what were the processes involved in this decision? Scientists working in this field might say – as indeed I have said – that the benefits of such experiments and the resulting knowledge outweigh the risks.”
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@george-k said in Senator Paul, you do not know what you are talking about.:
@jolly said in Senator Paul, you do not know what you are talking about.:
We also know that Fauci was well aware of the risk of such research and was perfectly willing to let people die, if a virus escaped, since he thought the research was that important.
Just to save y'all the trouble: https://nypost.com/2021/05/28/fauci-once-argued-viral-experiments-worth-the-risk-of-pandemic/
In the article, first reported by The Australian, Fauci also noted that a pause on such studies should continue until researchers can figure out how to do them more transparently.
Gain-of-function experiments are the sort of work that was being conducted at the Wuhan Institute of Virology when the COVID-19 pandemic first started in China in late 2019 and some experts fear a lab accident is what led to the global outbreak that killed 3.4 million.
In the 2012 paper, Fauci acknowledged the risky research could lead to serious lab accidents but the chance is rare and the work is “important” because it helps the scientific community prepare for naturally occurring pandemics.
“In an unlikely but conceivable turn of events, what if that scientist becomes infected with the virus, which leads to an outbreak and ultimately triggers a pandemic?” he wrote at the time.
“Many ask reasonable questions: given the possibility of such a scenario – however remote – should the initial experiments have been performed and/or published in the first place, and what were the processes involved in this decision? Scientists working in this field might say – as indeed I have said – that the benefits of such experiments and the resulting knowledge outweigh the risks.”
I was working off of memory. I didn't think Ax's silliness was worth going to the trouble to dig up a cite. You are a better man than I, Gunga Din...
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
Imagine how Fauci must feel. Goldblum, the tall, cool, leather-clad scientist, being totally right about this. And Fauci, the short, over-compensating social climber with his salon tan, and the blood of four million innocent victims on this hands.
Goldblum = cool genius protector of humanity
Fauci = loser nerd mass murderer -
Time for Fauci to go.
