Offensive signs
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wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 12:40 last edited by George K
N.J. woman must remove anti-Biden F-bomb signs or face $250-a-day fines, judge rules
A municipal judge on Thursday ruled that a Roselle Park homeowner’s owner’s anti- President Biden flags including the F-bomb on her fence were obscene and must be removed because they violated a borough ordinance.
Roselle Park Municipal Court Judge Gary Bundy ordered the Willow Avenue homeowner to remove the signs with profanity within a week or face a $250-a-day fine. Patricia Dilascio is the property owner but her daughter, Andrea Dick, had the signs, three of which include the F-word, on display.
“This is not a case about politics. It is a case, pure and simple, about language,” Bundy said. “This ordinance does not restrict political speech. Neither this town or its laws may abridge or eliminate Ms. Dilascio’s freedom of speech. However, freedom of speech is not simply an absolute right. It is clear from state law and statutes that we cannot simply put up the umbrella of the First Amendment and say everything and anything is protected speech.”
The ordinance prohibits displaying “any obscene material, communication or performance or other article or item which is obscene within the Borough.” It defines obscenity as material that depicts or describes sexual conduct or lacks any serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value.
Michael Campagna, an attorney representing the homeowner, argued that standards for obscenity have changed over the years, stating that it was obscene for women to show their knees in the 1920s. He said using the f-word towards someone no longer has a sexual connotation in society and is simply a colloquialism.
Not all the signs on the fence used profanity. The judge only ordered the homeowner to remove three signs with the f-word, and others, like the one that said “Socialism sucks. Biden blows” could remain.
“Today was a win for the borough and decency,” Signorello, the mayor, said in a statement to NJ Advance Media. “While we respect the views of our residents, there’s no place for profanity by a school and school children.”
So, "sucks," " blows" are OK, but "fuck" is not?
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wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 12:43 last edited by
I don’t know. It seems prudent to limit the restriction to what s typically considered profanity rather than boorishness.
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I don’t know. It seems prudent to limit the restriction to what s typically considered profanity rather than boorishness.
wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 12:51 last edited by@mik said in Offensive signs:
I don’t know. It seems prudent to limit the restriction to what s typically considered profanity rather than boorishness.
Agreed. Perhaps the fact that she lives near a school has some influence on the decision.
Yet, when Robert DeNiro gave an expletive-laden speech at the Tony awards, he was cheered. Just google "fuck Trump" and see where that takes you.
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wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 12:56 last edited by
Lose the profanity, keep any other political sign.
And no, I think that the speech - and a lot of other profanity-laden crap that passes as public discourse on the public airways - should be subject to a modicum of censorship.
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@mik said in Offensive signs:
I don’t know. It seems prudent to limit the restriction to what s typically considered profanity rather than boorishness.
Agreed. Perhaps the fact that she lives near a school has some influence on the decision.
Yet, when Robert DeNiro gave an expletive-laden speech at the Tony awards, he was cheered. Just google "fuck Trump" and see where that takes you.
wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 13:43 last edited by@george-k said in Offensive signs:
Yet, when Robert DeNiro gave an expletive-laden speech at the Tony awards, he was cheered. Just google "fuck Trump" and see where that takes you.
The Tonys weren't held at the same place the signs were it up. Different laws. You're creating a singular "They" that doesn't exist.
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wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 13:47 last edited by
Beg to differ. The root cause is societal coarsening, an ill wind that blows on all.
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wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 13:52 last edited by
She must be a lovely presence in the neighborhood.
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wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 14:11 last edited by Aqua Letifer
@jolly said in Offensive signs:
Beg to differ. The root cause is societal coarsening, an ill wind that blows on all.
That drives the expressed sentiment but the laws were written long before the current polarization. And in this case those laws have different jurisdictions. New York is Not New Jersey.
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wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 14:13 last edited by
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wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 16:03 last edited by
It might be as simple as the broken window theory. It’s also very similar to graffiti. Anyone who doesn’t want to nip it in the bud can look forward to it in abundance.
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It might be as simple as the broken window theory. It’s also very similar to graffiti. Anyone who doesn’t want to nip it in the bud can look forward to it in abundance.
wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 16:19 last edited by@loki said in Offensive signs:
It might be as simple as the broken window theory. It’s also very similar to graffiti. Anyone who doesn’t want to nip it in the bud can look forward to it in abundance.
Yes. Either you allow signs and sloganeering on private property, or you don't. But, in this case, "suck" and "blow" are OK.
That window is broken too.
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@loki said in Offensive signs:
It might be as simple as the broken window theory. It’s also very similar to graffiti. Anyone who doesn’t want to nip it in the bud can look forward to it in abundance.
Yes. Either you allow signs and sloganeering on private property, or you don't. But, in this case, "suck" and "blow" are OK.
That window is broken too.
wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 17:49 last edited by@george-k said in Offensive signs:
@loki said in Offensive signs:
It might be as simple as the broken window theory. It’s also very similar to graffiti. Anyone who doesn’t want to nip it in the bud can look forward to it in abundance.
Yes. Either you allow signs and sloganeering on private property, or you don't. But, in this case, "suck" and "blow" are OK.
That window is broken too.
Won’t happen but to prove how stupid it is everyone should put out a sign on their front yard that says suck and blow.
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wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 18:34 last edited by Catseye3
Why can't the neighbors -- assuming they actually are offended -- gather in a kind of respectful intervention near but not at her doorstep and explain, respectfully and courteously, that they find her signage to be a blight on the aesthetics of the neighborhood, and they wish her to take it down? Lard their remarks with acknowledgement of her right to her opinion, blah, blah, blah, but not everybody can be expected to share in it, surely she must see that? Be very sweet and reasonable and supportive as hell.
Make no threats, no mention of vigilante action where the signage will be torn down in the dead of night by a howling mob if she doesn't comply.
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wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 18:51 last edited by
I'm closer to Jolly on this one. I'd prefer the language not be tossed about with the regularity that it is. I think the F word is an order of magnitude above "suck" and "blows" though that may change with time.
Frankly, I find the volume of signage on display, regardless of its content even if it were "God is Love" or "Peace to Mankind" or "Black Lives Matter," is a bit much. A single "Biden is Blah" or whatever would be plenty.
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wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 18:55 last edited by Larry
I like her signs. I'm offended by the big "black Lives Matter" letters painted on some streets. I'm offended by the crude and vulgar signs I see leftist wingnuts with. I'm offended by rainbow flags and a bunch of faggots prancing down the street. When i see those coming down because some people are offended by them, then I MIGHT consider asking signs like these to come down too.
Until then, fuck Biden a.nd fuck the democrat party,
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wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 20:05 last edited by
I can appreciate the sentiment - but I'd prefer keeping signage on property to a minimum. Regardless of the messaging her signage gives the property a nice trailer camp atmosphere that neighbors might not appreciate. If she were living next to you, would you want that quantity of messaging?
Finally, regardless of the message, whether "f the Police" or "F Trump" or "F Biden" is just spreading hate. I understand anger, but something I'd rather try not to nurture and encourage in children.
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wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 20:36 last edited by
What is the point of putting signs up in your garden?
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wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 20:56 last edited by
No point as far as I'm concerned. I refuse to put any sort of sign or slogan on my lawn or garden. The only exception would be a realtor's For Sale sign. Certainly no political signs.
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What is the point of putting signs up in your garden?
wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 20:59 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Offensive signs:
What is the point of putting signs up in your garden?
I think it's stupid. I almost understand it during a political campaign. But to preach it at other times seems silly (and that's being conservative) to me.
But, as I've said before in this thread, either you allow signs or you don't. If you do, why are some things more offensive than others?
(Just a thought: Had this homeowner said the same about Trump, what do you think the odds are that she'd be fined?)
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wrote on 18 Jul 2021, 21:13 last edited by
I 've already mentioned the lady round the corner who had a Trump/Pence sign up in her front garden.
After the election, when Pence refused to attempt to overturn the result, she covered the 'Pence' with duct tape. It finally came down a few weeks ago, but it made me laugh every time I passed it.
