Airstrike in Gaza
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That’s pretty chickenshit, Aqua.
So what do you think about the situation? I lean toward Israel, but that doesn’t mean I believe the Arabs have no position. I just think all could do a lot better for their people if they could stop lobbing rockets.
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That’s pretty chickenshit, Aqua.
So what do you think about the situation? I lean toward Israel, but that doesn’t mean I believe the Arabs have no position. I just think all could do a lot better for their people if they could stop lobbing rockets.
@mik said in Airstrike in Gaza:
That’s pretty chickenshit, Aqua.
No, I'm just tired of using recent events as a proxy conversation for "my tribe is best." Conversations are good, but I'm done with time-wasters. It seems that's all staunch party supporters who love trite explanations have on offer.
So what do you think about the situation? I lean toward Israel, but that doesn’t mean I believe the Arabs have no position. I just think all could do a lot better for their people if they could stop lobbing rockets.
Well, I don't know shit about any of it, but I can't make any sense of current events until I can make sense of the following:
- What would Israel actually have to do to be condemned by the international community? More importantly, what would Palestine have to do, and how are those lists different? I wonder about the specific nature of those differences and why they exist.
- How is it that while the Westboro Baptist Church has done effectively nothing to compromise the level of respect actual Baptists are extended, Palestinians are always judged by their worst sub-groups in the eyes of their critics? Again I wonder about a double standard, this time as it pertains to guilt-by-association.
I'm serious about wanting to figure those out. We don't treat those groups evenly and don't even attempt to. Should we, though? And either way, how can any worthwhile conclusions be drawn?
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The equality issue does not move me. What does move me is the leaders of each group leads them astray with policies and actions that have nothing whatsoever to do with the wellbeing of their followers.
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The equality issue does not move me. What does move me is the leaders of each group leads them astray with policies and actions that have nothing whatsoever to do with the wellbeing of their followers.
@mik said in Airstrike in Gaza:
The equality issue does not move me.
It doesn't move me either but it makes reliable conclusions very difficult to draw.
What does move me is the leaders of each group leads them astray with policies and actions that have nothing whatsoever to do with the wellbeing of their followers.
Yeah, that's definitely a big part of the problem.
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NPR: Israeli Airstrike Flattens Building Housing AP And Other Media In Gaza City
n the latest in a series of attacks, an Israeli airstrike Saturday leveled a high-rise building after the military ordered occupants to evacuate. Inside were the offices of several media outlets — including The Associated Press and Al-Jazeera— and residential apartments.
An AP statement said all employees and freelancers safely evacuated the building. AP President and CEO Gary Pruitt said the company is looking to the Israeli government for answers.
"We are shocked and horrified that the Israeli military would target and destroy the building housing AP's bureau and other news organizations in Gaza," he said. "They have long known the location of our bureau and knew journalists were there.
"We narrowly avoided a terrible loss of life. A dozen AP journalists and freelancers were inside the building and thankfully we were able to evacuate them in time."
White House press secretary Jen Psaki announced via Twitter that Washington has expressed concerns for journalists' safety to Israeli officials.
There was no immediate explanation for the attack that brought down the 12-story building.
The strike came only hours after another air assault killed at least 10 Palestinians, mostly children, in a densely populated refugee camp. The attack on the camp was the deadliest offensive in the recent conflict between Israeli and Arab forces, AP reported.
The most recent escalation of conflict began a week ago, with combat and rioting erupting throughout Israel. Israeli forces shot and killed 11 people Friday during Palestinian protests in the West Bank.
Here's what NPR didn't bother to tell you:
"Earlier, AP staffers and other tenants safely evacuated the building after the military telephoned a warning that the strike was imminent within an hour. Three heavy missiles struck the 12-story building, collapsing it in a giant cloud of dust," the report continues.
Ah, so they were warned in advance.
Why strike this building? Something else NPR neglected to mention:
Israel’s military said the building was used by Hamas’s military intelligence services, and its jet fighters targeted it after warning residents to evacuate.
Would it be wrong to ask why the AP shares space with Hamas military intelligence? Now, it's certainly possible that it was a mistake, and the wrong building was hit. It's also possible that the IDF is lying.
But I don't think so.
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@george-k said in Airstrike in Gaza:
Would it be wrong to ask why the AP shares space with Hamas military intelligence? Now, it's certainly possible that it was a mistake, and the wrong building was hit. It's also possible that the IDF is lying.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/15/israel-airstrike-media/
This WaPo reporting prominent mentions the fact that the Israeli forces gave warning before attacking. Still, it also mentions that the Israeli forces refused to offer any supporting evidence to back up their claim that there were any Hamas activity in that building.
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@george-k said in Airstrike in Gaza:
Would it be wrong to ask why the AP shares space with Hamas military intelligence? Now, it's certainly possible that it was a mistake, and the wrong building was hit. It's also possible that the IDF is lying.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/15/israel-airstrike-media/
This WaPo reporting prominent mentions the fact that the Israeli forces gave warning before attacking. Still, it also mentions that the Israeli forces refused to offer any supporting evidence to back up their claim that there were any Hamas activity in that building.
@axtremus said in Airstrike in Gaza:
@george-k said in Airstrike in Gaza:
Would it be wrong to ask why the AP shares space with Hamas military intelligence? Now, it's certainly possible that it was a mistake, and the wrong building was hit. It's also possible that the IDF is lying.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/15/israel-airstrike-media/
This WaPo reporting prominent mentions the fact that the Israeli forces gave warning before attacking. Still, it also mentions that the Israeli forces refused to offer any supporting evidence to back up their claim that there were any Hamas activity in that building.
Ax is your point that you think Hamas was not in the building or they had to prove to the media they were there?
Hint:they were there.
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@axtremus said in Airstrike in Gaza:
@george-k said in Airstrike in Gaza:
Would it be wrong to ask why the AP shares space with Hamas military intelligence? Now, it's certainly possible that it was a mistake, and the wrong building was hit. It's also possible that the IDF is lying.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/15/israel-airstrike-media/
This WaPo reporting prominent mentions the fact that the Israeli forces gave warning before attacking. Still, it also mentions that the Israeli forces refused to offer any supporting evidence to back up their claim that there were any Hamas activity in that building.
Ax is your point that you think Hamas was not in the building or they had to prove to the media they were there?
Hint:they were there.
@loki said in Airstrike in Gaza:
Ax is your point that you think Hamas was not in the building or they had to prove to the media they were there?
I would actually set the bar quite a bit higher than that. If you’re going attack a civilian facility and claim to be “the good guys,” you’re should prove to the intern national community that (1) that civilian facility has been compromised by enemy combatants and (2) the forces and methods you employed is appropriate and proportional to the thread.
You are not only accountable to “the media,” you are accountable to humanity. This is what the civilized world should aspire to.
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@loki said in Airstrike in Gaza:
Ax is your point that you think Hamas was not in the building or they had to prove to the media they were there?
I would actually set the bar quite a bit higher than that. If you’re going attack a civilian facility and claim to be “the good guys,” you’re should prove to the intern national community that (1) that civilian facility has been compromised by enemy combatants and (2) the forces and methods you employed is appropriate and proportional to the thread.
You are not only accountable to “the media,” you are accountable to humanity. This is what the civilized world should aspire to.
@axtremus said in Airstrike in Gaza:
@loki said in Airstrike in Gaza:
Ax is your point that you think Hamas was not in the building or they had to prove to the media they were there?
I would actually set the bar quite a bit higher than that. If you’re going attack a civilian facility and claim to be “the good guys,” you’re should prove to the intern national community that (1) that civilian facility has been compromised by enemy combatants and (2) the forces and methods you employed is appropriate and proportional to the thread.
You are not only accountable to “the media,” you are accountable to humanity. This is what the civilized world should aspire to.
I suspect you get what you wish for. It’s already been shared with the US. We will see if Biden makes the point again, that will be your first hint.
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I won’t enter the fray too deeply.
I imagine that the intelligence to this has been shared. In fact I could even see this being eventually being shared discreetly also with AP.
The media offices not only serve as an insurance policy for hamas. The sophisticated antenna array on the roof are used also for internal encrypted communications within Gaza. This was a strategic target. There are dozens of multi story buildings in Gaza. Only several specific ones have been dropped. The ones that will make a difference.
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@loki said in Airstrike in Gaza:
Ax is your point that you think Hamas was not in the building or they had to prove to the media they were there?
I would actually set the bar quite a bit higher than that. If you’re going attack a civilian facility and claim to be “the good guys,” you’re should prove to the intern national community that (1) that civilian facility has been compromised by enemy combatants and (2) the forces and methods you employed is appropriate and proportional to the thread.
You are not only accountable to “the media,” you are accountable to humanity. This is what the civilized world should aspire to.
@axtremus said in Airstrike in Gaza:
@loki said in Airstrike in Gaza:
Ax is your point that you think Hamas was not in the building or they had to prove to the media they were there?
I would actually set the bar quite a bit higher than that. If you’re going attack a civilian facility and claim to be “the good guys,” you’re should prove to the intern national community that (1) that civilian facility has been compromised by enemy combatants and (2) the forces and methods you employed is appropriate and proportional to the thread.
You are not only accountable to “the media,” you are accountable to humanity. This is what the civilized world should aspire to.
@axtremus said in Airstrike in Gaza:
@loki said in Airstrike in Gaza:
Ax is your point that you think Hamas was not in the building or they had to prove to the media they were there?
I would actually set the bar quite a bit higher than that. If you’re going attack a civilian facility and claim to be “the good guys,” you’re should prove to the intern national community that (1) that civilian facility has been compromised by enemy combatants and (2) the forces and methods you employed is appropriate and proportional to the thread.
You are not only accountable to “the media,” you are accountable to humanity. This is what the civilized world should aspire to.
After watching multiple, indiscriminate rocket attacks on innocent people by terrorists, your accountability argument is thin gruel, indeed.
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To Aqua’s point you only believe there is no significant Hamas in the building if you have a certain political point of view. The AP President ought to speak out with a new account of his feelings and his claiming being unaware is super suspect or plausible because he is that uninformed.
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Israel shared intelligence with the US showing how Hamas operated inside the same building with the Associated Press and Al-Jazeera in Gaza, officials in Jerusalem said on Sunday.
Officials in more than one government office confirmed that US President Joe Biden’s phone call to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Saturday was, in part, about the bombing of the building, and that Israel showed Biden and American officials the intelligence behind the action.
“We showed them the smoking gun proving Hamas worked out of that building,” a senior diplomatic source said. “I understand they found the explanation satisfactory.”
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Check out the info on an Atlantic piece from 2014 and AP’s awareness of Hamas in the building in Gaza. Starting to look like the CEO’s comment was very unfortunate given his title and interestingly worldwide media abandoned his assertion very quickly.
https://nypost.com/2021/05/17/ap-slammed-for-claiming-it-was-unaware-of-hamas-presence/
It’s too bad I’d like to see the entire truth eventually come out without compromising Israeli intelligence on the matter.
The breathtaking naïveté of people who just assumed the Israeli’s would simply bomb the press is strikingly funny.
