Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies."
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That’s bad but did we even hear about this call to begin with?
The controversial and damning call was with the Secretary of State which we had a recording of from the very beginning.
DON’T let them eat cake.
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@jon-nyc said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
That’s bad but did we even hear about this call to begin with?
President Donald Trump pushed Georgia's lead elections investigator in a phone call in December to produce evidence of fraud in the presidential race, telling the person to "find the fraud" and promising that they would be a "national hero" for doing so, according to a person familiar with the call.
The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/10/trump-call-georgia-election-find-the-fraud
While election officials in Georgia were verifying signatures on absentee ballot envelopes in one metro Atlanta county, Donald Trump pressed a lead investigator to “find the fraud” and said it would make the investigator a national hero.
The December call, described by a person familiar with it, is yet another link in the chain of the extraordinary pressure campaign waged by the US president on state officials as he sought to overturn the results of the November election, which he lost to Democrat Joe Biden.
In December, while a signature match audit was ongoing in one Georgia county, President Donald Trump phoned a chief investigator in Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger's office asking the official to "find the fraud" and telling this person they would be a "national hero" for it, an individual familiar with the matter confirmed to ABC News.
And, the WaPo original story: https://web.archive.org/web/20210113190159if_/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-call-georgia-investigator/2021/01/09/7a55c7fa-51cf-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html
President Trump urged Georgia’s lead elections investigator to “find the fraud” in a lengthy December phone call, saying the official would be a “national hero,” according to an individual familiar with the call who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the conversation.
Trump placed the call to the investigations chief for the Georgia secretary of state’s office shortly before Christmas — while the individual was leading an inquiry into allegations of ballot fraud in Cobb County, in the suburbs of Atlanta, according to people familiar with the episode. -
Obviously it got reported else we wouldn’t be reading about the correction but this was not something that even hit this forum’s radar.
The damning call “ I just want to find 11,780 votes” was accompanied by a published recording within a day of Trump’s initial denial.
That’s the one we talked about.
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Regardless, it was a hot lie.
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The fact that the WaPo stated, as a matter of fact, something that the president never said doesn't bother anyone?
I really don't care about the other statements he made. The fact that this one was reported, and repeated, as though...what's the word, oh, yeah....it were in an echo chamber is chilling.
And the fact that we find that this was made up, out of whole cloth, about 3 months later is no less bothersome.
Quis custodiet...and all that shit.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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I’d love to see someone defend the Post for what it did.
Maybe I should do the assumptive close and suggest that this a rare time that we all agree!
It’s just that the MSM always says the are the “science” evidence based, fact based folks and no one even blushes at their bullshit.
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@george-k said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
@loki said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
I’d love to see someone defend the Post for what it did.
Doesn't matter what the Post said, because in another story, Trump said something reprehensible.
That's how it works, right?
It’s the big lie that they don’t lie that I care about. If they just admitted they were partisans I wouldn’t care.
Calling out people for the behaviors they exhibit and most importantly get away with it equals no justice. But like you imply the ends justify the means.
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@george-k said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
The fact that the WaPo stated, as a matter of fact, something that the president never said doesn't bother anyone?
People, including journalists, make mistake. WaPo figures out they made a mistake and they owned up to it, publicly. Not as good as not making a mistake in the first place, but publicly correcting your mistake is the second best thing. What WaPo did this time is still way better than Trump making mistakes that he refuses to own up to even after his mistakes have been convincingly demonstrated as such.
Further, Trump at the time had no business calling Georgia's Sec. of State to begin with. Let the campaign get its lawyers make that sort of phone calls, Trump should not have taken part in such a call himself.
I really don't care about the other statements he made. The fact that this one was reported, and repeated, as though...what's the word, oh, yeah....it were in an echo chamber is chilling.
You cared about the wrong statement. You should have cared about the “I just want to find 11,780 votes” -- you can hear the recording of that call and you can analyze it for yourself, free from any journalist/analyst/opinion writer's recounting or interpretation of what happened.
And the fact that we find that this was made up, out of whole cloth, about 3 months later is no less bothersome.
It is less bothersome than finding out 6 months later, it is less bothersome than finding out 12 months later, etc.
Quis custodiet...and all that shit.
Georgia's Sec. State released the recordings, that is the quis custodiet ... shit for this case. Georgia's Sec. State has the recording all along, they could have and ideally should have released it immediately right after the phone call, then there would have been no mistaken reporting. Even if not immediately, they should have released it upon learning that there are inaccurate reporting about it in the public media -- that too could have shortened the time the mistake remained in circulation. Why did it take so long for Georgias Sec. State to correct this mistake? I hope there is a good explanation, or at least an innocent one.
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@axtremus said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
People, including journalists, make mistake. WaPo figures out they made a mistake and they owned up to it, publicly.
This was not a "mistake." This was something they made up out of whole cloth. They attributed a quotation to the president which he never made. The word for taht is not "mistake," it's "lying."
Not as good as not making a mistake in the first place, but publicly correcting your mistake is the second best thing.
And it took them three months to do it.
What WaPo did this time is still way better than Trump making mistakes that he refuses to own up to even after his mistakes have been convincingly demonstrated as such.
So, you're holding the WaPo to the Trump Standard? C'mon, man!
Further, Trump at the time had no business calling Georgia's Sec. of State to begin with. Let the campaign get its lawyers make that sort of phone calls, Trump should not have taken part in such a call himself.
That's irrelevant to the WaPo's reporting. What Trump did to the GA SecState might well have been wrong, but it does not absolve the Post of making stuff up. "Darkness," after all.
You cared about the wrong statement. You should have cared about the “I just want to find 11,780 votes” -- you can hear the recording of that call and you can analyze it for yourself, free from any journalist/analyst/opinion writer's recounting or interpretation of what happened.
No, I care about a "newspaper" reporting, what's the word...oh, yeah, FACTS, accurately, and not making shit up.
It is less bothersome than finding out 6 months later, it is less bothersome than finding out 12 months later, etc.
Glad to see you arguing about price.
Quis custodiet...and all that shit.
Georgia's Sec. State released the recordings, that is the quis custodiet ... shit for this case. Georgia's Sec. State has the recording all along, they could have and ideally should have released it immediately right after the phone call, then there would have been no mistaken reporting. Even if not immediately, they should have released it upon learning that there are inaccurate reporting about it in the public media -- that too could have shortened the time the mistake remained in circulation. Why did it take so long for Georgias Sec. State to correct this mistake? I hope there is a good explanation, or at least an innocent one.
Once again, I have no dispute with the GA SecState call and the reporting thereof. This is a separate issue, one of a news source making up quotations.
Please, burn your strawman - it's pretty ripe.
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@george-k said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
And, I just came across this. The Democrats used this "Fake News" (can I say that now?) story in the articles of impeachment:
I realize impeachment is a political event, but the Articles ought to at least be based on facts. Of course, there were hot lies in the first Articles.
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I am aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who ever cared whether he was maliciously lied about. I am also aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who would admit to that fact. One must keep up appearances, after all. Their facade of virtue is totally fooling everybody, just ask them.
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I did not read the original story, but I do not think it is uncommon for a news article to say something like, "according to sources, XXX happened......"
Maybe Aqua can comment if in journalism class, they tell you to have two sources to confirm information. Seems like it should have certainly been done here.
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@taiwan_girl said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
"according to sources, XXX happened......"
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@taiwan_girl said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
I did not read the original story, but I do not think it is uncommon for a news article to say something like, "according to sources, XXX happened......"
Maybe Aqua can comment if in journalism class, they tell you to have two sources to confirm information. Seems like it should have certainly been done here.
When I was in journalism school they taught me that if you can't confirm it you can't print it. That hasn't been the case anymore for many years.
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@horace said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
I am aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who ever cared whether he was maliciously lied about. I am also aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who would admit to that fact. One must keep up appearances, after all. Their facade of virtue is totally fooling everybody, just ask them.
I became convinced after the Russia! hoax, when it was well known it was a fake created on a bed of lies in a FISA court, that fairness, due process and rule of law had been thrown out the window in a single-minded pursuit of power and ideology.
People were willing to prostitute their souls, Because Trump.
