Trump Senate defense: the American people already rejected me

[Jolly]

As Hume said, this impeachment is purely political and carries the same weight as the first.

None.

[xenon]

@jolly said in Trump Senate defense: the American people already rejected me:

purely political

Isn't there room for another interpretation? What political advantage did Liz Cheney garner (within her own party)?

[Jolly]

@xenon said in Trump Senate defense: the American people already rejected me:

@jolly said in Trump Senate defense: the American people already rejected me:

purely political

Isn't there room for another interpretation? What political advantage did Liz Cheney garner (within her own party)?

None.

[Jolly]

And on another note...This place down here is going nuts over the Cassidy vote.

[Renauda]

In what way? Partying in the streets or prepping a lynching?

[Jolly]

@renauda said in Trump Senate defense: the American people already rejected me:

In what way? Partying in the streets or prepping a lynching?

Think rope.

[Axtremus]

On Bill Cassidy: https://nypost.com/2021/02/10/bill-cassidy-rebuked-by-state-gop-over-impeachment-trial-vote/

Sen. Bill Cassidy rebuked by state GOP for vote to call impeachment trial constitutional

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...
Asked Wednesday if he stood by his vote after the rebuke, Cassidy said yes.

“The issue was, is it constitutional? And at the end of the day, clearly it had been established that it is constitutional,” he said.
...

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[Jolly]

Bill's staff is not answering any of his normal office lines.

I do know one person that took their ears off, having reached them on a line reserved for media...

[xenon]

@jolly said in Trump Senate defense: the American people already rejected me:

And on another note...This place down here is going nuts over the Cassidy vote.

I guess the question is - should a representative vote in line with what he thinks his constituents believe or principles he stood for when elected?

[Mik]

A representative should reflect the views and desires of his constituency. That's what they are elected to do.

[xenon]

@mik said in Trump Senate defense: the American people already rejected me:

A representative should reflect the views and desires of his constituency. That's what they are elected to do.

Right - but let's say you as the representative are more informed on an issue and you know your constituents to have a poor understanding of a complex situation.

Let's not link it to this Trump impeachment thing - just in the abstract.

If your constituents believe X... but the rep knows X to be false, should he still act as if he also believes X?

A classic example would be tax policy. You elect representatives, because direct democracy would lead to poor decisions on complex policies.

[Mik]

Then the rep is obligated to communicate that to his constituents. Not just take the high handed “I know what is good for them.”.

[Renauda]

@jolly said in Trump Senate defense: the American people already rejected me:

@renauda said in Trump Senate defense: the American people already rejected me:

In what way? Partying in the streets or prepping a lynching?

Think rope.

That was my first thought.

[xenon]

@mik said in Trump Senate defense: the American people already rejected me:

Then the rep is obligated to communicate that to his constituents. Not just take the high handed “I know what is good for them.”.

I agree he should communicate it clearly to his constituents. But, I’m guessing there’s something to his vote. He didn’t just become a patron of kabuki arts.

[Axtremus]

Then you get some issues like 83% of American support "universal background check" as a gun control measure, yet the elected representatives don't vote that way.

The notion of "constituent" is also tricky.

The 'party system' also gets in the way. Should a Senator represent the will of the entire state pollution, or just the ones who voted for him, or even just the ones who voted for him in the primaries? Who, exactly, are the Senator's "constituents"?

Ideally a Senator should reflect the will of the entire state's population, but practically if he wants to be reelected he cannot lose in the primaries, which means s/he has to cater to the will of his party.

To make this concrete, if 55% of a state's general population thinks Trump should be convicted, but a Senator from that state happens to be a Republican and 65% of the Republicans in that state thinks Trump should not be convicted, then the Senator in practice would have to first cater to the 65% of the Republicans so s/he can win the next primary election before catering to the 55% of the state's general population who thinks Trump should be convicted.

[xenon]

I think once a representative is elected there are two mechanisms to f accountability: 1) re-election 2) personal integrity and character

That’s really it.

[Axtremus]

Poll: Most Americans think Trump at least partially responsible for Capitol attack
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment-poll/poll-most-americans-think-trump-at-least-partially-responsible-for-capitol-attack-idUSKBN2AD0LH

“(Reuters) - Seventy-one percent of American adults, including nearly half of all Republicans, believe former President Donald Trump was at least partially responsible for starting the deadly Jan. 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol, according to an Ipsos poll conducted for Reuters.

But the national online poll, released on Saturday, also showed that a smaller proportion -- only about half of the country -- thinks Trump should be convicted of inciting insurrection at his Senate impeachment trial or barred from holding public office again.”

[Aqua Letifer]

@axtremus said in Trump Senate defense: the American people already rejected me:

Poll: Most Americans think Trump at least partially responsible for Capitol attack
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment-poll/poll-most-americans-think-trump-at-least-partially-responsible-for-capitol-attack-idUSKBN2AD0LH

“(Reuters) - Seventy-one percent of American adults, including nearly half of all Republicans, believe former President Donald Trump was at least partially responsible for starting the deadly Jan. 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol, according to an Ipsos poll conducted for Reuters.

But the national online poll, released on Saturday, also showed that a smaller proportion -- only about half of the country -- thinks Trump should be convicted of inciting insurrection at his Senate impeachment trial or barred from holding public office again.”

TDS

[Loki]

@aqua-letifer said in Trump Senate defense: the American people already rejected me:

@axtremus said in Trump Senate defense: the American people already rejected me:

Poll: Most Americans think Trump at least partially responsible for Capitol attack
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment-poll/poll-most-americans-think-trump-at-least-partially-responsible-for-capitol-attack-idUSKBN2AD0LH

“(Reuters) - Seventy-one percent of American adults, including nearly half of all Republicans, believe former President Donald Trump was at least partially responsible for starting the deadly Jan. 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol, according to an Ipsos poll conducted for Reuters.

But the national online poll, released on Saturday, also showed that a smaller proportion -- only about half of the country -- thinks Trump should be convicted of inciting insurrection at his Senate impeachment trial or barred from holding public office again.”

TDS

It’s over. Can’t we keep it that way? Since the loss Ax seems to want to keep sending notes that somehow prove the dems won.
When you lose you lose, right? He’s pulling a Donald.

[Jolly]

@axtremus said in Trump Senate defense: the American people already rejected me:

Poll: Most Americans think Trump at least partially responsible for Capitol attack
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment-poll/poll-most-americans-think-trump-at-least-partially-responsible-for-capitol-attack-idUSKBN2AD0LH

“(Reuters) - Seventy-one percent of American adults, including nearly half of all Republicans, believe former President Donald Trump was at least partially responsible for starting the deadly Jan. 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol, according to an Ipsos poll conducted for Reuters.

But the national online poll, released on Saturday, also showed that a smaller proportion -- only about half of the country -- thinks Trump should be convicted of inciting insurrection at his Senate impeachment trial or barred from holding public office again.”

MSM deluge.