Looks like my turn is coming.
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@jon-nyc said in Looks like my turn is coming.:
I would go as far as to say they are the only group that, as a class, deserves to be on par with the elderly. Precisely because there’s such a huge cost actually being borne by students that are not in school.
And I literally mean they’re the only one. IOW health care workers should not have been prioritized with them, let alone above them. Not as a class. (Just subsets)
You're wrong.
Without healthcare workers, you cannot treat sick people.
Without an adequate healthcare team, you wouldn't be writing your opinions. Very few opinions come out of the grave.
wrote on 5 Jan 2021, 23:44 last edited by jon-nyc 1 May 2021, 23:45"Without X workers we'd be screwed" is true for many X, but it doesn't strike me as relevant in itself for prioritization. Are they, in the actual world, falling sick with Covid in sufficiently high numbers to threaten healthcare capacity? I don't mean could they, but is it happening or on the verge of actually happening? If so, then there's a public health case for that particular subset of healthcare workers to get prioritized.
Otherwise, from what I've seen they (as a group) are less at risk than the general population, even though they are more likely to be around Covid (IOW their use of PPE and other safety measures seems to more than offset the additional risk of their working environment).
Oh, aas for my own situation where I would not be alive but for modern medicine, that is true but also irrelevant. My whole premise is that vaccine prioritization should be done based on science not politics. So 'these guys did me a solid so they should be rewarded with a vaccine' isn't driving my logic here.
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wrote on 5 Jan 2021, 23:47 last edited by
I think healthcare workers should certainly be priority, but perhaps not all of them. Anyone who is patient facing or in labs, etc. needs it.
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"Without X workers we'd be screwed" is true for many X, but it doesn't strike me as relevant in itself for prioritization. Are they, in the actual world, falling sick with Covid in sufficiently high numbers to threaten healthcare capacity? I don't mean could they, but is it happening or on the verge of actually happening? If so, then there's a public health case for that particular subset of healthcare workers to get prioritized.
Otherwise, from what I've seen they (as a group) are less at risk than the general population, even though they are more likely to be around Covid (IOW their use of PPE and other safety measures seems to more than offset the additional risk of their working environment).
Oh, aas for my own situation where I would not be alive but for modern medicine, that is true but also irrelevant. My whole premise is that vaccine prioritization should be done based on science not politics. So 'these guys did me a solid so they should be rewarded with a vaccine' isn't driving my logic here.
wrote on 6 Jan 2021, 00:02 last edited by Jolly 1 Jun 2021, 00:30@jon-nyc said in Looks like my turn is coming.:
"Without X workers we'd be screwed" is true for many X, but it doesn't strike me as relevant in itself for prioritization. Are they, in the actual world, falling sick with Covid in sufficiently high numbers to threaten healthcare capacity? I don't mean could they, but is it happening or on the verge of actually happening? If so, then there's a public health case for that particular subset of healthcare workers to get prioritized.
Otherwise, from what I've seen they (as a group) are less at risk than the general population, even though they are more likely to be around Covid (IOW their use of PPE and other safety measures seems to more than offset the additional risk of their working environment).
Oh, aas for my own situation where I would not be alive but for modern medicine, that is true but also irrelevant. My whole premise is that vaccine prioritization should be done based on science not politics. So 'these guys did me a solid so they should be rewarded with a vaccine' isn't driving my logic here.
In the real world, healthcare workers are x12 more likely to contract COVID.
Hospitals are like aircraft carriers. The Russians never fielded a well-functioning aircraft carrier. The French were ok on a smaller scale. Only the Brits and the U.S., fielded multiple aircraft carriers and made them work to their fullest capacity. And nowadays, only the U.S. runs large carriers.
That's because aircraft carriers are complex systems.
Hospitals are complex systems. Everything has to work as it should or care is compromised. At some point, the housekeeper cleaning up the OR becomes almost as important as the circulating nurse. Not enough workers in lab or X-ray compromises throughput. A short ED crew backs up admissions, or vice-versa.
And etc., etc., etc...
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@jon-nyc said in Looks like my turn is coming.:
"Without X workers we'd be screwed" is true for many X, but it doesn't strike me as relevant in itself for prioritization. Are they, in the actual world, falling sick with Covid in sufficiently high numbers to threaten healthcare capacity? I don't mean could they, but is it happening or on the verge of actually happening? If so, then there's a public health case for that particular subset of healthcare workers to get prioritized.
Otherwise, from what I've seen they (as a group) are less at risk than the general population, even though they are more likely to be around Covid (IOW their use of PPE and other safety measures seems to more than offset the additional risk of their working environment).
Oh, aas for my own situation where I would not be alive but for modern medicine, that is true but also irrelevant. My whole premise is that vaccine prioritization should be done based on science not politics. So 'these guys did me a solid so they should be rewarded with a vaccine' isn't driving my logic here.
In the real world, healthcare workers are x12 more likely to contract COVID.
Hospitals are like aircraft carriers. The Russians never fielded a well-functioning aircraft carrier. The French were ok on a smaller scale. Only the Brits and the U.S., fielded multiple aircraft carriers and made them work to their fullest capacity. And nowadays, only the U.S. runs large carriers.
That's because aircraft carriers are complex systems.
Hospitals are complex systems. Everything has to work as it should or care is compromised. At some point, the housekeeper cleaning up the OR becomes almost as important as the circulating nurse. Not enough workers in lab or X-ray compromises throughput. A short ED crew backs up admissions, or vice-versa.
And etc., etc., etc...
wrote on 6 Jan 2021, 00:17 last edited by@jolly said in Looks like my turn is coming.:
Hospitals are like aircraft carriers. The Russians never fielded a well-functioning aircraft carrier. The French were ok on a smaller scale. Only the Brits and the U.S., fielded multiple aircraft carriers and made them work to their fullest capacity.
To be fair, aircraft carriers are also supremely expensive, so the lack of organization skills may not be the main reason why not more nations have them.
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@jolly said in Looks like my turn is coming.:
Hospitals are like aircraft carriers. The Russians never fielded a well-functioning aircraft carrier. The French were ok on a smaller scale. Only the Brits and the U.S., fielded multiple aircraft carriers and made them work to their fullest capacity.
To be fair, aircraft carriers are also supremely expensive, so the lack of organization skills may not be the main reason why not more nations have them.
wrote on 6 Jan 2021, 00:29 last edited by@klaus said in Looks like my turn is coming.:
@jolly said in Looks like my turn is coming.:
Hospitals are like aircraft carriers. The Russians never fielded a well-functioning aircraft carrier. The French were ok on a smaller scale. Only the Brits and the U.S., fielded multiple aircraft carriers and made them work to their fullest capacity.
To be fair, aircraft carriers are also supremely expensive, so the lack of organization skills may not be the main reason why not more nations have them.
I mentioned the Russians. They tried. The Chinese are currently trying. They haven't made it work right, either.
Did the U.S.S.R. or the current Chinese not have the funds to make them work?
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@klaus said in Looks like my turn is coming.:
@jolly said in Looks like my turn is coming.:
Hospitals are like aircraft carriers. The Russians never fielded a well-functioning aircraft carrier. The French were ok on a smaller scale. Only the Brits and the U.S., fielded multiple aircraft carriers and made them work to their fullest capacity.
To be fair, aircraft carriers are also supremely expensive, so the lack of organization skills may not be the main reason why not more nations have them.
I mentioned the Russians. They tried. The Chinese are currently trying. They haven't made it work right, either.
Did the U.S.S.R. or the current Chinese not have the funds to make them work?
wrote on 6 Jan 2021, 00:54 last edited by@jolly said in Looks like my turn is coming.:
Did the U.S.S.R. or the current Chinese not have the funds to make them work?
China may, but from what I remember, The Netherlands has a higher GDP than Russia.
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@jon-nyc said in Looks like my turn is coming.:
"Without X workers we'd be screwed" is true for many X, but it doesn't strike me as relevant in itself for prioritization. Are they, in the actual world, falling sick with Covid in sufficiently high numbers to threaten healthcare capacity? I don't mean could they, but is it happening or on the verge of actually happening? If so, then there's a public health case for that particular subset of healthcare workers to get prioritized.
Otherwise, from what I've seen they (as a group) are less at risk than the general population, even though they are more likely to be around Covid (IOW their use of PPE and other safety measures seems to more than offset the additional risk of their working environment).
Oh, aas for my own situation where I would not be alive but for modern medicine, that is true but also irrelevant. My whole premise is that vaccine prioritization should be done based on science not politics. So 'these guys did me a solid so they should be rewarded with a vaccine' isn't driving my logic here.
In the real world, healthcare workers are x12 more likely to contract COVID.
Hospitals are like aircraft carriers. The Russians never fielded a well-functioning aircraft carrier. The French were ok on a smaller scale. Only the Brits and the U.S., fielded multiple aircraft carriers and made them work to their fullest capacity. And nowadays, only the U.S. runs large carriers.
That's because aircraft carriers are complex systems.
Hospitals are complex systems. Everything has to work as it should or care is compromised. At some point, the housekeeper cleaning up the OR becomes almost as important as the circulating nurse. Not enough workers in lab or X-ray compromises throughput. A short ED crew backs up admissions, or vice-versa.
And etc., etc., etc...
wrote on 6 Jan 2021, 00:56 last edited by@jolly said in Looks like my turn is coming.:
In the real world, healthcare workers are x12 more likely to contract COVID.
Maybe properly diagnosed. What does the serology say? In NYC they had positive rates significantly lower than the general population.
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@jolly said in Looks like my turn is coming.:
In the real world, healthcare workers are x12 more likely to contract COVID.
Maybe properly diagnosed. What does the serology say? In NYC they had positive rates significantly lower than the general population.
wrote on 6 Jan 2021, 01:06 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Looks like my turn is coming.:
@jolly said in Looks like my turn is coming.:
In the real world, healthcare workers are x12 more likely to contract COVID.
Maybe properly diagnosed. What does the serology say? In NYC they had positive rates significantly lower than the general population.
At that point in tine, I suspect a lot of the general public was not being tested.
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@jon-nyc said in Looks like my turn is coming.:
@jolly said in Looks like my turn is coming.:
In the real world, healthcare workers are x12 more likely to contract COVID.
Maybe properly diagnosed. What does the serology say? In NYC they had positive rates significantly lower than the general population.
At that point in tine, I suspect a lot of the general public was not being tested.
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wrote on 7 Jan 2021, 01:45 last edited by
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