From the Left Side of the Aisle

[Jolly]

I think he gets the point. The GOP has changed...

https://newrepublic.com/article/160068/even-pandemic-couldnt-kill-trumpism

[Axtremus]

It’s rather obvious that the GOP has changed.

Reagan granted amnesty, then by the time McCain was running, amnesty is dirty word.

After GW Bush, no Republican (except Jeb) wants anything to do with Bush. McCain, Romney, Trump ... none wanted either of the two living (at the time) GOP ex-Presidents to campaign with or for them. By 2015, the Bushes also do not want to campaign with or for Trump.

Compare to the Democrats, from Bill Clinton to Obama to Hillary Clinton to Joe Biden ... they all still campaign for and with each other. Heck, even Jimmy Carter approves of the Clintons, Obama, and now Joe Biden; they even approve of John Kerry.

In contrast, you cannot say that Reagan would approve of Trump with a straight face. The Bushes do not approve of Trump. Trump impugned McCain’s “war hero” status, McCain’s surviving family openly supports Biden. Romney voted to impeach Trump.

So, yeah, the GOP has changed.

[George K]

@Jolly said in From the Left Side of the Aisle:

https://newrepublic.com/article/160068/even-pandemic-couldnt-kill-trumpism

Everything that @Axtremus says is true, but most of it is based on personality and a dislike for Trump as a person. Nothing to do with his policies, as far as Ax's comments go. Do the Bushes, Romney, McCain disagree with his policies, or do they only hate him because he's an obnoxious lout?

[jon-nyc]

"His policies" is pretty vague George.

But while they weren't all vocal about it, I wouldn't think any of them approved of the more Trump-driven policy changes (immigration, trade, foreign policy).

I'm sure they were ok with the tax bill, but that was totally in line with previous decades of GOP policy.

[Axtremus]

@George-K said in From the Left Side of the Aisle:

@Jolly said in From the Left Side of the Aisle:

https://newrepublic.com/article/160068/even-pandemic-couldnt-kill-trumpism

Everything that @Axtremus says is true, but most of it is based on personality and a dislike for Trump as a person. Nothing to do with his policies, as far as Ax's comments go. Do the Bushes, Romney, McCain disagree with his policies, or do they only hate him because he's an obnoxious lout?

That question right there points to another GOP change: from “character matters” to not.

As for policies, I considered bringing up the GOP’s change from “deficit hawk” to passing the 2017 tax reform legislation that adds $Trillions to the national deficit, but that would require believing that the GOP actually believed in shrinking the deficit. I always thought the GOP paid only lip service on the deficit matter, never truly prioritized deficit reduction, so in that sense this is not a “change” for the GOP.

Still, on the policy front and still centered on the 2017 tax reform, the GOP abandoned their long-held believe against double-taxation — they let the federal government tax the money already taxes by state and local jurisdictions.

The GOP were also more supportive of separation of powers, federal vs. states, executive vs. legislative vs. judicial. The GOP used to rail A LOT about the federal government meddling in state affairs, about the use of executive orders. But with Trump, the GOP has become more tolerant to both. The GOP acquiesced to Trump sending federal agents to states in the name of quelling protests even when the state governors explicit asked the federal government not to. The GOP acquiesced to Trump trampling over Congress’ “power of the purse” by executive order to move money from parts FEMA and Defense (as appropriated by Congress) to building the US-Mexico border wall (not approved by Congress). These are not “personality” conflict, but true change in fundamental governing philosophies.

[Jolly]

@jon-nyc said in From the Left Side of the Aisle:

"His policies" is pretty vague George.

But while they weren't all vocal about it, I wouldn't think any of them approved of the more Trump-driven policy changes (immigration, trade, foreign policy).

I'm sure they were ok with the tax bill, but that was totally in line with previous decades of GOP policy.

1. Immigration. Reagan was in favor of a FDR-style Bracero Program in 1980. By 1986, Reagan wanted a much tougher border, it was part of the amnesty deal. Trump has repeatedly said he would be in support of a similar Bracero Program.

2. Trade. Trump is far from anti-trade. He is very much in favor of fair trade and against predatory trade. I don't see his position as vastly different than Reagan or either Bush, although I think Bush43 may be a bit wrong in thinking trade would undermine the Chinese Communist Party.

3. Foreign Policy. Therein lies much of the difference, primarily in the use of American military power. Trump is more isolationist than either Bush. Reagan had the U.S.S.R. to deal with and that shaped much of his foreign policy. China has shaped a decent portion of Trump's.

[Larry]

Say what you will about Trumps personality, it won't be his personality he will be remembered for. Half of the shit he's accused of isn't even true anyway. What he will be remembered for is what he accomplished. And it will be remembered from the perspective of people wishing they could go back to it. But it will be too late.