We overreacted!
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@Aqua-Letifer said in We overreacted!:
@Horace said in We overreacted!:
@Copper Variants of that idea dominate all conversation. I mean it's not like anybody wishing to be taken seriously can go around saying that a certain number of deaths are acceptable. So the whole social conversation is divorced from reason.
That's because you're drawing a silly line in the sand. It's not about X number of deaths being okay. If one person dies because we didn't do anything to protect him then yes, that's disgusting and we should damn well be ashamed of that. If several thousands die while enacting very real and serious efforts to protect all of us, then yes, okay, it's still a hit, but it's not a moral failing.
The goal is obvious: nobody dies while getting everyone back to work. Of course no one knows where the actual lines between safety, liberties, and the economy should be on this issue, it's way too complex. We're going to fuck up, and we'll make many arbitrary decisions that are going to piss people off. And lots of people will inevitably die anyway.
But the failing is not the death rate, it's the apathy. There's a difference between deaths caused by seriously trying to balance two very different calamities, and not caring about the deaths either because they're inevitable, or because people care more about the economy.
You'd be lousy at triage.
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I have to say, I'm less likely to listen to people telling me to get back to work when they were previously the same people claiming the disease was no worse than the flu, and that we should just carry on as normal because, after all, people die all the time and I'll probably get killed in a car accident anyway.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@Copper That's not "the balance." At all. Flattening the curve is not some kind of magical reset button.
This is tiresome, but whatever: Pretend it did flatten, and then, everyone went back to business as usual with no safety measures in place. If we did that, and the government got out of our way, the death rate would skyrocket in a matter of weeks, people would be shitting their pants, start to stay home, health care facilities would be beyond overrun, and the economy would tank anyway. We already know that bottom-up sequestration is a threat to the economy, it's already happened here with restaurants in every state prior to their respective shutdowns. We can't have it your way, even if we tried it.
Turns out the actual economists were right: there's no fixing the economy without dealing seriously with the public health risk.
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I think you miss the point of flattening the curve.
The point of flattening the curve is to keep from overwhelming the system.
It is not to overwhelm the system as you describe.
The goal is not to stop death.
And the only alternative is not to do something stupid as you describe.
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No, I get it fine, thanks. I'm saying there's no point in flattening the curve if we get back to business as usual immediately thereafter. Obviously that'll cause another spike. It's going to take very serious measures not to overwhelm the health care system if people return to work, and we have none of them in place right now. Crying out "but the economy" isn't really going to do it.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in We overreacted!:
I have to say, I'm less likely to listen to people telling me to get back to work when they were previously the same people claiming the disease was no worse than the flu, and that we should just carry on as normal because, after all, people die all the time and I'll probably get killed in a car accident anyway.
I love hearing it from people who don't even work themselves.
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@Copper said in We overreacted!:
Look at the flattened curve - there is no spike.
I never said there was.
@Copper said in We overreacted!:
People will die.
Good safety tip!
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There is a touch of the General Lord Kitchener wanting to move his drinks cabinet 3 feet closer to Berlin.
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Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
It seems to me that where people can work from home, they should. And a lot of people can do, with a few adjustments, at least partially.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@Jolly said in We overreacted!:
It's all a balancing act.
If the hospital guys don't go back to work fairly soon, there will be a lot less healthcare in the near future.
DING DING DING. That's likely the first place we need to open up. Strangling the health system's revenue stream will not save lives in the long run. They are also the industry most able to cope with safety measures.
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I have to say, if I had a non-urgent medical appointment at this point I think I'd re-schedule whether the place was open or not.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in We overreacted!:
It seems to me that where people can work from home, they should. And a lot of people can do, with a few adjustments, at least partially.
Healthcare is hands-on. Telemedicine is good for getting prescriptions refilled. Not so much for some other things.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Mik said in We overreacted!:
@Jolly said in We overreacted!:
It's all a balancing act.
If the hospital guys don't go back to work fairly soon, there will be a lot less healthcare in the near future.
DING DING DING. That's likely the first place we need to open up. Strangling the health system's revenue stream will not save lives in the long run. They are also the industry most able to cope with safety measures.
The news keeps talking about hospitals being overwhelmed again if we open up too fast but I don’t think the public understands that overwhelming the vast majority of hospitals have been crushed by the loss of patients. ED visits and inpatients down by 50-75% is the more common story.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in We overreacted!:
@Copper said in We overreacted!:
Look at the flattened curve - there is no spike.
I never said there was.
@Copper said in We overreacted!:
People will die.
Good safety tip!
Yes, you said we would have a skyrocket, then you said we would have a spike.
The whole point of the flattened curve is that we have a flattened curve - no skyrocket, no spike.
That seems pretty reasonable to me. It is based on an event that can be measured objectively. We wouldn't need a whole lot of emotion and snide remarks.
Just meet the goal. There is no time limit. Stay home and reduce the number of active cases. Then go back out. Simple and no real need to mock or accuse.
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@Jolly said in We overreacted!:
@Doctor-Phibes said in We overreacted!:
It seems to me that where people can work from home, they should. And a lot of people can do, with a few adjustments, at least partially.
Healthcare is hands-on. Telemedicine is good for getting prescriptions refilled. Not so much for some other things.
I was fine with reading the temperature, pulse rate, weight, and BP to my doctor on the TelePhysical. The prostate exam however...
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I had no qualms about taking Finley to his 6-month checkup and inoculations last week. what I wasn't comfortable with was the fact that we were the only ones there. This can't be maintained.
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@LuFins-Dad said in We overreacted!:
@Jolly said in We overreacted!:
@Doctor-Phibes said in We overreacted!:
It seems to me that where people can work from home, they should. And a lot of people can do, with a few adjustments, at least partially.
Healthcare is hands-on. Telemedicine is good for getting prescriptions refilled. Not so much for some other things.
I was fine with reading the temperature, pulse rate, weight, and BP to my doctor on the TelePhysical. The prostate exam however...
Just find a competent prostitute. Common procedure for a jon that's too slow.
