What 4th Amendment?
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Cameras, telescopes, and zoom microphones are getting cheaper and better. The cost and logistical impediment to surveilling ever larger number of citizens keep getting lower. Quite simply, we have surveillance technologies that the original framers of the US Constitution did not anticipate.
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In the article;
“I’m surprised we haven’t already heard more about Open Fields,” says Stephen Mutnick, a criminal defense attorney with Winslow & McCurry, PLLC in Midlothian, Va. “For right now, landowners have to remember that Fourth Amendment protections only extend to the home, personal effects and the curtilage. If you post your property no trespassing, private citizens have to stay away, but that doesn’t apply to government officials who don’t even need probable cause .”
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Sounds like a bad law - what's the argument for keeping it?
I was only joking
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Sounds like a bad law - what's the argument for keeping it?
@Doctor-Phibes said in What 4th Amendment?:
Sounds like a bad law - what's the argument for keeping it?
The key to this is open fields vs curtilage. I’m no lawyer but I’m guessing it is akin to if it can be seen in public, there is no expectation of privacy. Like drugs in open view when the cop pulls you over.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in What 4th Amendment?:
Sounds like a bad law - what's the argument for keeping it?
The key to this is open fields vs curtilage. I’m no lawyer but I’m guessing it is akin to if it can be seen in public, there is no expectation of privacy. Like drugs in open view when the cop pulls you over.
@Loki said in What 4th Amendment?:
@Doctor-Phibes said in What 4th Amendment?:
Sounds like a bad law - what's the argument for keeping it?
The key to this is open fields vs curtilage. I’m no lawyer but I’m guessing it is akin to if it can be seen in public, there is no expectation of privacy. Like drugs in open view when the cop pulls you over.
The difference is that the Feds have to enter your property to deposit a piece of equipment. I would think that anything on your land belongs to you, not the gummint.
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He could have had fun with this, like putting up a big obstacle in front of the camera, or maybe put up a really large sign advertising something exceptionally gross, or with a yo' momma joke written on it. Or maybe deciding to do some painting in the vicinity and accidentally spraying paint over the lens.
I was only joking
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He could have had fun with this, like putting up a big obstacle in front of the camera, or maybe put up a really large sign advertising something exceptionally gross, or with a yo' momma joke written on it. Or maybe deciding to do some painting in the vicinity and accidentally spraying paint over the lens.
@Doctor-Phibes said in What 4th Amendment?:
He could have had fun with this, like putting up a big obstacle in front of the camera, or maybe put up a really large sign advertising something exceptionally gross, or with a yo' momma joke written on it. Or maybe deciding to do some painting in the vicinity and accidentally spraying paint over the lens.
That's perfect. A yuge "MAGA" sign in front of the camera, about 12 inches away, so that's all that it could see.
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He could have had fun with this, like putting up a big obstacle in front of the camera, or maybe put up a really large sign advertising something exceptionally gross, or with a yo' momma joke written on it. Or maybe deciding to do some painting in the vicinity and accidentally spraying paint over the lens.
@Doctor-Phibes said in What 4th Amendment?:
He could have had fun with this, like putting up a big obstacle in front of the camera, or maybe put up a really large sign advertising something exceptionally gross, or with a yo' momma joke written on it. Or maybe deciding to do some painting in the vicinity and accidentally spraying paint over the lens.
Yes, that would have been the fun way to handle it. I would have absolutely loved doing that if I found one on my land. Change the sign every couple days as part of a hike. Fun and exercise. Winning!
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Sounds like a bad law - what's the argument for keeping it?
@Doctor-Phibes said in What 4th Amendment?:
Sounds like a bad law - what's the argument for keeping it?
No good argument at all.
It is quite reasonable to require law enforcement to get a court warrant to install surveillance equipment on private land. It is quite reasonable to require law enforcement from one jurisdiction (e.g., the federal government) to get a court warrant to install surveillance equipment in land belonging to another jurisdiction (e.g., state land).
The legislature could have passed a law to that effect. They have not.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in What 4th Amendment?:
Sounds like a bad law - what's the argument for keeping it?
No good argument at all.
It is quite reasonable to require law enforcement to get a court warrant to install surveillance equipment on private land. It is quite reasonable to require law enforcement from one jurisdiction (e.g., the federal government) to get a court warrant to install surveillance equipment in land belonging to another jurisdiction (e.g., state land).
The legislature could have passed a law to that effect. They have not.
@Axtremus said in What 4th Amendment?:
The legislature could have passed a law to that effect. They have not.
As a point of fact, state legislatures have passed laws and constitutional amendments to prohibit it.
At the most basic, the question is simple: By what right does the gummint claim to be able to come onto private property?
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An old farmer was out in his front yard when a car pulled up and a little chubby guy wearing a suit got out and said "I'm from the federal government and we suspect that you're growing illegal substances on your property. I'm going to walk around your property and have a look."
The farmer said "sure, go ahead. But don't go in that field over there." The chubby little guy in a suit flashed a big badge at the farmer and said "listen, you hillbilly! I am with the federal government and this badge says I can go anywhere I want to! So that field is the first place I WILL go!"
The old farmer said "Okey dokey, then... go ahead." And the chubby little man in a suit climbed over the fence and went walking through the field, finally disappearing over a hill.
A bit later, here came the chubby little government man, running as fast as he could run, a huge black Angus bull gaining on him, and the bull was mad. The chubby little government man yelled to the farmer., "HELP ME!! HELP ME!!!"
The old farmer ran over to the fence and yelled... "Show him your badge!!"...
