No such thing?
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@Copper said in No such thing?:
image url)Not true. I worked on a project with PTT (Oil company of Thailand) where they are installing a process to make "green diesel", which in their case would be produced from palm oil or jatropa oil. US based technology company provides the technology.
Pure drop-in fuel that can be blended in any proportion with petroleum fuel
High cetane and low density can enhance your diesel pool’s performance characteristics
Requires no changes to fuel infrastructure or vehicle technology
Up to 85% lower greenhouse gas emissions with ultra-low sulfur and low NOx emissions
Excellent performance at both cold and warm temperatures
Stable, not oxygenatedAir New Zealand and United Airlines have both gotten approval and have done test flights using this "green diesel"
At this point, it is a slightly higher cost, so as long as oil prices are low, it is not competitive. Thailand is thinking of moving to require 7% of the total diesel fuel market to come from sources such as green diesel.
One of the concerns is making sure that any green diesel source (palm, jatropa, etc.) does not take away from food land. Still a lot of concerns and issues to completely work out, but it can be promising.
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What does it cost to make it and what waste byproducts are created in the process?
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@Jolly said in No such thing?:
What does it cost to make it and what waste byproducts are created in the process?
I will have to review my notes, but I think it is about 10-20% higher cost of production. By products are pretty minimal - not really any more than produce of regular diesel.
The "upstream" processing of the natural oil is good enough that the "feed" to the green diesel plant gives it a pretty good conversion.
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@Jolly said in No such thing?:
What does it cost to make it and what waste byproducts are created in the process?
I will have to review my notes, but I think it is about 10-20% higher cost of production. By products are pretty minimal - not really any more than produce of regular diesel.
The "upstream" processing of the natural oil is good enough that the "feed" to the green diesel plant gives it a pretty good conversion.
@taiwan_girl said in No such thing?:
@Jolly said in No such thing?:
What does it cost to make it and what waste byproducts are created in the process?
I will have to review my notes, but I think it is about 10-20% higher cost of production. By products are pretty minimal - not really any more than produce of regular diesel.
The "upstream" processing of the natural oil is good enough that the "feed" to the green diesel plant gives it a pretty good conversion.
Actually, Valero has a big "green diesel" plant in Louisiana.
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And the U.S. government has to subsidize it, or it may not even break even.
I was offered preferred stock to go to work for a biodiesel maker. Some venture capitalists had bankrolled a beta site production facility using wastewater sludge as biomass. Usually, sewage plants have to pay somebody to haul this stuff off, so the business model was predicated on getting this stuff for free.
After doing some research, I guessed these guys would have to continue to obtain biomass for free and without government subsidy, would have to have crude in excess of $75/barrel to compete in finished product price.
I ranaway, not walked.
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And the U.S. government has to subsidize it, or it may not even break even.
I was offered preferred stock to go to work for a biodiesel maker. Some venture capitalists had bankrolled a beta site production facility using wastewater sludge as biomass. Usually, sewage plants have to pay somebody to haul this stuff off, so the business model was predicated on getting this stuff for free.
After doing some research, I guessed these guys would have to continue to obtain biomass for free and without government subsidy, would have to have crude in excess of $75/barrel to compete in finished product price.
I ranaway, not walked.
@Jolly I agree. On a only economic looking, green diesel cannot compete with regular diesel YET. (and probably for the near future as world oil demand is down and may stay down).
If Thailand government does not specify the 7% green diesel requirement, most/all companies will not use the technology at current regular oil prices.
There is a lot of interesting work in this area - biomass feed from corn husk, the decay matter on the forest floor, etc. There is (or was, not sure if it is still operating) a green diesel factory in Hawaii USA which used pineapple leftover. (I wanted to take PTT on site visit there, but was unable to do so! LOL)
2nd generation is looking at things like algae, etc.
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Lower pollution energy is in the future. It will happen, but gradually No government edict will make it happen.
And if you asked rthe trucking industry if tey would be willing to pay 20% more for green diesel they would laugh in your face. It is such a low profit mareguin business already.
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Lower pollution energy is in the future. It will happen, but gradually No government edict will make it happen.
And if you asked rthe trucking industry if tey would be willing to pay 20% more for green diesel they would laugh in your face. It is such a low profit mareguin business already.
@Mik The US government could step in with subsidies.
I believe they do it now with ethanol
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@Jolly Agree. Interesting thing about ethanol vs something like green fuels. Ethanol requires a while separate “infrastructure “ as you can’t mix ethanol with the fuel until the end step, so you need separate pipelines, tanks, etc
Green diesel for example is a “drop in”. Chemically, it is the same whether it is from animal fat, palm oil, or regular oil.
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@taiwan_girl said in No such thing?:
@Jolly said in No such thing?:
What does it cost to make it and what waste byproducts are created in the process?
I will have to review my notes, but I think it is about 10-20% higher cost of production. By products are pretty minimal - not really any more than produce of regular diesel.
The "upstream" processing of the natural oil is good enough that the "feed" to the green diesel plant gives it a pretty good conversion.
Actually, Valero has a big "green diesel" plant in Louisiana.
@taiwan_girl said in No such thing?:
@taiwan_girl said in No such thing?:
@Jolly said in No such thing?:
What does it cost to make it and what waste byproducts are created in the process?
I will have to review my notes, but I think it is about 10-20% higher cost of production. By products are pretty minimal - not really any more than produce of regular diesel.
The "upstream" processing of the natural oil is good enough that the "feed" to the green diesel plant gives it a pretty good conversion.
Actually, Valero has a big "green diesel" plant in Louisiana.
Diamond Green Diesel company is doubling production with an expansion of their factory.
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"AMERICAN COMPANIES ARE IMPORTING MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF USED COOKING OIL FROM CHINA — ALL FOR ONE UNEXPECTED REASON"
