A Public Service Announcement
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wrote on 2 Oct 2020, 21:29 last edited by
From a lot of the stuff I'm reading today, I find many people are laboring under a misconception...The average cloth mask does a pretty crappy job protecting you from COVID. From the Australia-Vietnam study, only about 20% effective.
It's much better at preventing you from giving the disease to somebody else. The goal of wearing a mask is not to eradicate coronavirus, because that's not happening with current medicine. It's to slow the spread of the disease. To buy time. To not overwhelm the system. You get exposed enough, even with a mask, chances are pretty good you will have COVID, eventually.
Just remember that small fact, when engaging in some of the current mask debate.
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wrote on 2 Oct 2020, 21:38 last edited by
I always understood that to be the case but explaining nuance to others makes compliance worse. Asymptomatic people can spread.
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wrote on 2 Oct 2020, 21:46 last edited by
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wrote on 2 Oct 2020, 21:49 last edited by George K 10 Feb 2020, 21:50
Variations of this have been going around for months:
I have no knowledge of the specific numbers depicted, but the point is basically what Jon said.
So, in that light, which asshat wasn't wearing a mask when near POTUS, LOL?
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Variations of this have been going around for months:
I have no knowledge of the specific numbers depicted, but the point is basically what Jon said.
So, in that light, which asshat wasn't wearing a mask when near POTUS, LOL?
wrote on 3 Oct 2020, 00:39 last edited by@George-K said in A Public Service Announcement:
So, in that light, which asshat wasn't wearing a mask when near POTUS, LOL?
It looked to me as if nobody was taking this very seriously. None of his kids wore masks during the debate, he attended all kinds of get-togethers where nobody was masked.
Mask wearing has been portrayed as weakness, cowardice, etc. It should have been presented as people being unselfish. It's not ourselves we're looking after when we wear a mask, it's everybody else.
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@George-K said in A Public Service Announcement:
So, in that light, which asshat wasn't wearing a mask when near POTUS, LOL?
It looked to me as if nobody was taking this very seriously. None of his kids wore masks during the debate, he attended all kinds of get-togethers where nobody was masked.
Mask wearing has been portrayed as weakness, cowardice, etc. It should have been presented as people being unselfish. It's not ourselves we're looking after when we wear a mask, it's everybody else.
wrote on 3 Oct 2020, 00:43 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in A Public Service Announcement:
Mask wearing has been portrayed as weakness, cowardice, etc.
By whom? People in the administration?
Serious question. I've not heard anything like this from the WH.
Various idiots in the RWEC, perhaps, but not from POTUS.
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wrote on 3 Oct 2020, 00:49 last edited by
I didn't mean from Trump. His main failing during the Covid crisis in my opinion has been an inability to remain consistent. He's been all over the place.
I also think he could have provided more leadership in setting an example by wearing a mask more often. He didn't say it was a sign of weakness, however my suspicion was that he didn't wear a mask because he thought it might be perceived as weakness by others.
However, he is what he is. As I'm sure his advisors bemoan on occasion.
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I didn't mean from Trump. His main failing during the Covid crisis in my opinion has been an inability to remain consistent. He's been all over the place.
I also think he could have provided more leadership in setting an example by wearing a mask more often. He didn't say it was a sign of weakness, however my suspicion was that he didn't wear a mask because he thought it might be perceived as weakness by others.
However, he is what he is. As I'm sure his advisors bemoan on occasion.
wrote on 3 Oct 2020, 00:52 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in A Public Service Announcement:
provided more leadership in setting an example by wearing a mask more often
Like, in a hair salon, for example?
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@Doctor-Phibes said in A Public Service Announcement:
provided more leadership in setting an example by wearing a mask more often
Like, in a hair salon, for example?
wrote on 3 Oct 2020, 01:01 last edited by@George-K said in A Public Service Announcement:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Public Service Announcement:
provided more leadership in setting an example by wearing a mask more often
Like, in a hair salon, for example?
Sure. I'm not defending Nancy Pelosi, what she did was idiotic and arrogant.
But he's the Head of State.
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@George-K said in A Public Service Announcement:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Public Service Announcement:
provided more leadership in setting an example by wearing a mask more often
Like, in a hair salon, for example?
Sure. I'm not defending Nancy Pelosi, what she did was idiotic and arrogant.
But he's the Head of State.
wrote on 3 Oct 2020, 01:02 last edited by George K 10 Mar 2020, 01:04@Doctor-Phibes said in A Public Service Announcement:
But he's the Head of State.
Yup. And she condemned him for doing exactly what she did.
Edit to anticipate your response:
No, she's not the head of state. I get it. But her comments reflect what a head of state should do. Her behaviors belie those comments.
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wrote on 3 Oct 2020, 01:07 last edited by
I would say that it should be possible to criticise Donald Trump without it being seen as a defence of Nancy Pelosi, and vice versa.
They're both exhibiting poor leadership qualities.
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wrote on 3 Oct 2020, 02:03 last edited by
Transcipt of Debate
PS Just as cringy reading it as it was watching it. LOLTranscript from debate about masks
CHRIS WALLACE: President Trump, you have begun to increasingly question the effectiveness of masks as a disease preventer. And in fact, recently you have cited the issue of waiters touching their masks and touching plates. Are you questioning the efficacy of masks?
DONALD TRUMP: No, I think masks are okay. You have to understand, if you look… I mean, I have a mask right here. I put a mask on when I think I need it. Tonight, as an example, everybody's had a test and you've had social distancing and all of the things that you have to, but I wear masks-
JOE BIDEN: Just like your rally.
DONALD TRUMP: … when needed. When needed, I wear masks.
CHRIS WALLACE: Okay. Let me ask-
DONALD TRUMP: I don't wear a mask like him. Every time you see him, he's got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from him and he shows up with the biggest mask I've ever seen. I will say this-
CHRIS WALLACE: Vice President Biden, go ahead, sir.
JOE BIDEN: Look, the way to open businesses is give them the wherewithal to be able open. We provided money, the-
CHRIS WALLACE: But I was asking you, sir, about masks.
JOE BIDEN: Well, masks make a big difference. His own head of the CDC said if we just wore masks between now, if everybody wore a mask and social distanced between now and January, we'd probably save up to 100,000 lives. It matters. It matters.
DONALD TRUMP: And they've also said the opposite. They've also said-
JOE BIDEN: No serious person has said the opposite. No serious person.
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wrote on 3 Oct 2020, 03:02 last edited by
The biggest mask I've ever seen?
Clearly, he doesn't get out much.
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Transcipt of Debate
PS Just as cringy reading it as it was watching it. LOLTranscript from debate about masks
CHRIS WALLACE: President Trump, you have begun to increasingly question the effectiveness of masks as a disease preventer. And in fact, recently you have cited the issue of waiters touching their masks and touching plates. Are you questioning the efficacy of masks?
DONALD TRUMP: No, I think masks are okay. You have to understand, if you look… I mean, I have a mask right here. I put a mask on when I think I need it. Tonight, as an example, everybody's had a test and you've had social distancing and all of the things that you have to, but I wear masks-
JOE BIDEN: Just like your rally.
DONALD TRUMP: … when needed. When needed, I wear masks.
CHRIS WALLACE: Okay. Let me ask-
DONALD TRUMP: I don't wear a mask like him. Every time you see him, he's got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from him and he shows up with the biggest mask I've ever seen. I will say this-
CHRIS WALLACE: Vice President Biden, go ahead, sir.
JOE BIDEN: Look, the way to open businesses is give them the wherewithal to be able open. We provided money, the-
CHRIS WALLACE: But I was asking you, sir, about masks.
JOE BIDEN: Well, masks make a big difference. His own head of the CDC said if we just wore masks between now, if everybody wore a mask and social distanced between now and January, we'd probably save up to 100,000 lives. It matters. It matters.
DONALD TRUMP: And they've also said the opposite. They've also said-
JOE BIDEN: No serious person has said the opposite. No serious person.
wrote on 3 Oct 2020, 03:09 last edited by@taiwan_girl that’s what came to mind for me as well. Found a video
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wrote on 3 Oct 2020, 12:53 last edited by George K 10 Mar 2020, 12:59
A long deep dive: https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/
A lot of it seems to go against what is being said now.
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A long deep dive: https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/
A lot of it seems to go against what is being said now.
wrote on 3 Oct 2020, 13:06 last edited by@George-K I dont know. I am still a big mask believer.
In my mind, I compare it to a screen on a window. Directionally, it has to help.
Many many bugs can be smaller than the screen size, but it will for sure be removing some of them. Not perfect, but in the right direction.
maybe completely incorrect thinking, and maybe (like one of the articles talked about in the report you link) it is just mental, but it makes me feel better.
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wrote on 3 Oct 2020, 13:17 last edited by
I'm not a denier. I just posted that for context. I always mask up when I leave the house (though I don't wear one on my walks - if I encounter someone, we pass at least 8-10 feet apart from each other).
I found a lot of interesting stuff in it however.
Regarding, OR attire, there was one study (can't remember where I read it) that showed that wearing masks in the OR doesn't prevent infection in the patients. They only serve to protect the team from whatever the patient might transmit. It's my understanding that in Great Britain, in the OR, only people standing at the site are masked (surgeon, scrub nurse, assistants, etc). Anesthesiologist and circulating nurse are not wearing masks.
Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons
The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a conservative non-profit association founded in 1944. The group was reported to have about 5,000 members in 2014. The association has promoted a range of scientifically discredited hypotheses, including the belief that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism. It is opposed to the Affordable Care Act and other forms of universal health insurance...
AAPS is generally recognized as politically conservative or ultra-conservative,[2][7] and its positions are unorthodox and at wide variance with federal health policy.[8]
The Washington Post summarized their beliefs in February 2017 as "doctors should be autonomous in treating their patients — with far fewer government rules, medical quality standards, insurance coverage limits and legal penalties when they make mistakes".[8] It opposed the Social Security Act of 1965 which established Medicare and Medicaid and encouraged member physicians to boycott Medicare and Medicaid.[9] The organization requires its members to sign a "declaration of independence" pledging that they will not work with Medicare, Medicaid, or even private insurance companies.[10]
AAPS opposes mandated evidence-based medicine and practice guidelines, opposes abortion and over-the-counter access to emergency contraception and opposes electronic medical records.[10]
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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wrote on 3 Oct 2020, 14:14 last edited by
That's interesting...
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I'm not a denier. I just posted that for context. I always mask up when I leave the house (though I don't wear one on my walks - if I encounter someone, we pass at least 8-10 feet apart from each other).
I found a lot of interesting stuff in it however.
Regarding, OR attire, there was one study (can't remember where I read it) that showed that wearing masks in the OR doesn't prevent infection in the patients. They only serve to protect the team from whatever the patient might transmit. It's my understanding that in Great Britain, in the OR, only people standing at the site are masked (surgeon, scrub nurse, assistants, etc). Anesthesiologist and circulating nurse are not wearing masks.
Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons
The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a conservative non-profit association founded in 1944. The group was reported to have about 5,000 members in 2014. The association has promoted a range of scientifically discredited hypotheses, including the belief that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism. It is opposed to the Affordable Care Act and other forms of universal health insurance...
AAPS is generally recognized as politically conservative or ultra-conservative,[2][7] and its positions are unorthodox and at wide variance with federal health policy.[8]
The Washington Post summarized their beliefs in February 2017 as "doctors should be autonomous in treating their patients — with far fewer government rules, medical quality standards, insurance coverage limits and legal penalties when they make mistakes".[8] It opposed the Social Security Act of 1965 which established Medicare and Medicaid and encouraged member physicians to boycott Medicare and Medicaid.[9] The organization requires its members to sign a "declaration of independence" pledging that they will not work with Medicare, Medicaid, or even private insurance companies.[10]
AAPS opposes mandated evidence-based medicine and practice guidelines, opposes abortion and over-the-counter access to emergency contraception and opposes electronic medical records.[10]
wrote on 3 Oct 2020, 15:15 last edited by@George-K Their beliefs make things a bit suspicious, but they did link to "legitimate" organizations.
(But I still believe that masks help a lot LOL)
