What bothers me about the trump veterans brouhaha
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wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 12:41 last edited by
@Mik said in What bothers me about the trump veterans brouhaha:
Aqua, that was a quote about one man who was constantly slagging him.
Seems like he was referring to anyone who was captured in war.
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wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 12:41 last edited by
Context, TG, context.
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wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 15:00 last edited by
@Mik said in What bothers me about the trump veterans brouhaha:
Aqua, that was a quote about one man who was constantly slagging him.
So you think that quote isn't a valid reason for concern regarding whether or not Trump respects veterans. Why is what he said about McCain okay?
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wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 15:18 last edited by
It is impolite.
You can expect more impolite behavior in the future.
The appetite for impolite behavior varies.
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wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 15:19 last edited by
I'm not Mik, but my answer would be that it was a not ok thing to say and Trump would be a better President if he didn't say that stuff. But you might note that the observation was in the form of a joke. "Why should I respect POWs? Why shouldn't I respect the ones who didn't get captured?". That sounds a lot like the observation of an edgelord open mic stand up comic. If you want to understand the character of the man who said it, that was the part of his character talking IMO.
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wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 15:25 last edited by
Aqua. I am more disturbed by a media that is making up the truth because they think it is good for me than a Boris Yeltsin type President. The MSM rarely makes contact with reality any more, it presents its idealized view of what life should look like. Very dystopian and autocratic.
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I'm not Mik, but my answer would be that it was a not ok thing to say and Trump would be a better President if he didn't say that stuff. But you might note that the observation was in the form of a joke. "Why should I respect POWs? Why shouldn't I respect the ones who didn't get captured?". That sounds a lot like the observation of an edgelord open mic stand up comic. If you want to understand the character of the man who said it, that was the part of his character talking IMO.
wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 15:54 last edited by@Horace said in What bothers me about the trump veterans brouhaha:
my answer would be that it was a not ok thing to say and Trump would be a better President if he didn't say that stuff.
That's my only point. He's not Stalin for saying things like that; that's liberal TDS. Conservative TDS is defending it. So let's just call it a fucked up thing to say and leave it at that.
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wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 16:01 last edited by
That seems to be the default response with President Trump
Pick one:
"That is just President Trump being President Trump"
"He was joking"
"It was taken out of contacts"
"He didn't mean what he said/he didn't mean what was reported"
"He may speak incorrectly but he means well"
"He is treated unfairly by the public/news"
"It's not really a big deal. You have to look past what he says"I DO think that President Trump is treated unfairly compared to recent past president, but I also think that he brings some of it (maybe alot) on himself.
And I do think he would be/could be much better if he acted more "presidential". (Sorry to those who like President Trump, but I dont think the way he acts makes him a better President. President Trump being President Trump is not an upgrade to me. LOL)
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wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 16:44 last edited by
Let's go back to when McCain was alive. The man was a royal pain in the ass, and was one of the main reasons the republicans couldn't get their shit together and stand up to the democrats. Republicans were to the point of openly hoping he would lose his next election. A commonly expressed sentiment was "I'd call him an ass hole but he's a war hero so I'll sit on my thumbs", in so many words.
The only reason most republicans didn't say it openly was because they didn't want to be "politically incorrect". One of the very reasons Trump is now and was then the man needed for the job was precisely because he wont be politically correct just to make you feel better. McCain was a sorry assed jerk who was constantly a turd in the republican punchbowl, and Trump said what 90% of republicans were thinking but didnt dare say. He says what needs saying, and if you dont like it well fuck you. I like that.
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Let's go back to when McCain was alive. The man was a royal pain in the ass, and was one of the main reasons the republicans couldn't get their shit together and stand up to the democrats. Republicans were to the point of openly hoping he would lose his next election. A commonly expressed sentiment was "I'd call him an ass hole but he's a war hero so I'll sit on my thumbs", in so many words.
The only reason most republicans didn't say it openly was because they didn't want to be "politically incorrect". One of the very reasons Trump is now and was then the man needed for the job was precisely because he wont be politically correct just to make you feel better. McCain was a sorry assed jerk who was constantly a turd in the republican punchbowl, and Trump said what 90% of republicans were thinking but didnt dare say. He says what needs saying, and if you dont like it well fuck you. I like that.
wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 16:47 last edited by@Larry said in What bothers me about the trump veterans brouhaha:
Let's go back to when McCain was alive. The man was a royal pain in the ass, and was one of the main reasons the republicans couldn't get their shit together and stand up to the democrats. Republicans were to the point of openly hoping he would lose his next election. A commonly expressed sentiment was "I'd call him an ass hole but he's a war hero so I'll sit on my thumbs", in so many words.
The only reason most republicans didn't say it openly was because they didn't want to be "politically incorrect". One of the very reasons Trump is now and was then the man needed for the job was precisely because he wont be politically correct just to make you feel better. McCain was a sorry assed jerk who was constantly a turd in the republican punchbowl, and Trump said what 90% of republicans were thinking but didnt dare say. He says what needs saying, and if you dont like it well fuck you. I like that.
You are such a pain in the ass bringing up context. The argument was nearly won.
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wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 17:01 last edited by Aqua Letifer 9 Jun 2020, 17:01
But he didn't call him an asshole, despite his military record. That's exactly what he should have done. Instead, he criticized his military record, specifically his being a POW, which has nothing to do with his politics.
@Loki So you think then that it's okay to insult a former POW for being a POW because he's politically a royal pain in the ass? Context makes it okay to confuse a military record with politics?
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But he didn't call him an asshole, despite his military record. That's exactly what he should have done. Instead, he criticized his military record, specifically his being a POW, which has nothing to do with his politics.
@Loki So you think then that it's okay to insult a former POW for being a POW because he's politically a royal pain in the ass? Context makes it okay to confuse a military record with politics?
wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 17:09 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in What bothers me about the trump veterans brouhaha:
But he didn't call him an asshole, despite his military record. That's exactly what he should have done. Instead, he criticized his military record, specifically his being a POW, which has nothing to do with his politics.
@Loki So you think then that it's okay to insult a former POW for being a POW because he's politically a royal pain in the ass? Context makes it okay to confuse a military record with politics?
Never. It was really fvcked up on Trump’s part. Trump however is pretty transparent who he is and is almost always a counterpuncher. The MSM is the most transactional bunch of the ends justify the means and I can’t believe have given up a lifetime of trust building, but worse try to trick people into believing lies and justifying those lies. Every lie is a debt to the future.
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wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 17:23 last edited by
This is how every Trump pig pile works. The current issue is about a claim that Trump called veterans losers and refused to visit a war memorial in France because he thought they were losers. Then those who were there in the room say it never happened, including one guy who wrote a book trashing Trump. The canceled trip was said to be about the weather. Having lost the argument over what he did or didn't say, the trashing turned to how he's lying about the weather. Then it was proven using documentation that it WAS canceled due to weather. Now the claim about what he said is shown to be a lie, the claim that weather was just an excuse is shown to be a lie, so to keep the whole thing going it becomes "yeah, but it sounds like something he would say, just look at what he said about McCain!" Just don't bother to put what he said about McCain in context, because "Orange man bad" and once you tear down that bit of out of context bull shit the Trump bashers will just deflect to some other way of feeding their mindless hate.
Damn.
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wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 17:31 last edited by Larry 9 Jun 2020, 17:32
Oh - and whatever you do, don't point out to the Trump bashers all the many times Trump has attended events honoring the war dead, or what He's done for veterans, or the two pay raises he's given the military, or how he has rebuilt the military, or how he has made it possible for soldiers to actually do their jobs, or how he regularly, with no public fanfare, visits Walter Reed hospital to visit the soldiers who are wounded.
Don't mention any of that, or they'll start talking about the whore that tried to shake him down again.
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wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 17:44 last edited by
On the bright side, TDS has been a wonderful mechanism by which tedious group thinking and group hating sheep eagerly self identify. Now we know them.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in What bothers me about the trump veterans brouhaha:
But he didn't call him an asshole, despite his military record. That's exactly what he should have done. Instead, he criticized his military record, specifically his being a POW, which has nothing to do with his politics.
@Loki So you think then that it's okay to insult a former POW for being a POW because he's politically a royal pain in the ass? Context makes it okay to confuse a military record with politics?
Never. It was really fvcked up on Trump’s part. Trump however is pretty transparent who he is and is almost always a counterpuncher. The MSM is the most transactional bunch of the ends justify the means and I can’t believe have given up a lifetime of trust building, but worse try to trick people into believing lies and justifying those lies. Every lie is a debt to the future.
wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 18:05 last edited by@Loki said in What bothers me about the trump veterans brouhaha:
Never. It was really fvcked up on Trump’s part.
Yep, all I'm saying. I understand Trump's motivations and the problem with the MSM, and don't disagree with your analysis. Just saying it's still screwed up what he said is all.
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wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 20:26 last edited by
No, I don't think it was cool, Aqua. But if you look at what his administration has tried to do for veterans it is clear that he respects them greatly. What he has said pales beside that.
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No, I don't think it was cool, Aqua. But if you look at what his administration has tried to do for veterans it is clear that he respects them greatly. What he has said pales beside that.
wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 20:43 last edited by George K 9 Jun 2020, 20:44@Mik said in What bothers me about the trump veterans brouhaha:
No, I don't think it was cool
It was obnoxious AF.
It was wrong.
Despite the animus between him and McCain, the statement transcends that, insulting every soldier who's been taken POW (Has he ever read "Unbroken"? I doubt it).
This is one of those enforce errors that Trump is prone to. Say something off the cuff that's going to haunt you for a long time. I was not a hube fan of McCain (though I preferred him to what's-his-name), but this was just plain wrong.
Go ahead and complain about the man's policies, positions, whatever. But when you make a comment like that, it's a wide net you've cast, catching many innocents with your insult.
It was wrong.
And, @Mik , actions do, indeed, speak louder than words. Unfortunately, these words were pretty damn loud, and resonated with many people as an insult to POWs everywhere, as they should. As I said, unforced error, and wrong.
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wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 20:58 last edited by
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wrote on 6 Sept 2020, 21:18 last edited by xenon 9 Jun 2020, 21:18
The POW thing was a clear, early proof positive that this guy has no integrity.
I get that he’s doesn’t like McCain, but that his mind would even think to go that POW comment says a lot about the sort of person he is.