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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. And Andrew Sullivan is leaving NY Mag

And Andrew Sullivan is leaving NY Mag

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
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  • M Offline
    M Offline
    Mik
    wrote on 3 Sept 2020, 15:16 last edited by
    #18

    The hallmark of the left these past four years has been overplaying its hand. This fits right in.

    "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

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    • J jon-nyc
      17 Jul 2020, 20:33

      I support more redistribution of wealth for entirely conservative reasons. Mainly to preserve political support for the capitalist system, which I truly believe is the least bad way of organizing society

      M Offline
      M Offline
      Mik
      wrote on 3 Sept 2020, 15:16 last edited by
      #19

      @jon-nyc said in And Andrew Sullivan is leaving NY Mag:

      I support more redistribution of wealth for entirely conservative reasons. Mainly to preserve political support for the capitalist system, which I truly believe is the least bad way of organizing society

      How would you do that?

      "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

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      • H Offline
        H Offline
        Horace
        wrote on 3 Sept 2020, 15:57 last edited by
        #20

        I would agree in principle based on the tendency for technology to concentrate wealth, and that technology is a product of the market system. When someone invents something that concentrates wealth all to themselves, you'd want your society to forcibly redistribute that. Or people will get angry and start rioting.

        Education is extremely important.

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        • J Offline
          J Offline
          jon-nyc
          wrote on 3 Sept 2020, 16:50 last edited by
          #21

          Mik, I don’t have a specific program in mind, probably it would take the form of a more generous safety net, universal healthcare of some sort or another supported by progressive taxation. I’m open to the idea of UBI but I take Peterson’s objections pretty seriously.

          Thank you for your attention to this matter.

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          • M Offline
            M Offline
            Mik
            wrote on 3 Sept 2020, 16:54 last edited by
            #22

            My thoughts on universal healthcare are evolving, mostly because I see no serious activity in making it more transparent and market-based. I'm not a fan of UBI. Not at all. I am in favor of a more targeted and robust safety net but it needs to be temporary.

            "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

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            • J Offline
              J Offline
              jon-nyc
              wrote on 3 Sept 2020, 17:07 last edited by
              #23

              But my real point above is that I changed my ‘natural’ position on it for pragmatic reasons. I’ve done the same for immigration.

              I used to dismiss concerns about inequality, thinking the focus should be on reducing poverty, not worrying about rich vs poor gaps. But people aren’t wired to ignore that. That’s just a fact. So I decided we need to worry more about it for the sake of political stability.

              Same with immigration. I am by nature an expansionist (though hardly an open borders guy). But too much immigration in too short a time causes political instability so I’ve compromised there too.

              Thank you for your attention to this matter.

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              • M Offline
                M Offline
                Mik
                wrote on 3 Sept 2020, 18:40 last edited by
                #24

                I think we are pretty similar in that respect. I'm all for immigration, but not open borders. I think it is unfortunate that financial jealousy leads us where we are, but there is a serious risk in ignoring it.

                "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

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                • J Offline
                  J Offline
                  Jolly
                  wrote on 3 Sept 2020, 20:32 last edited by
                  #25

                  You don't need universal care. You need a two-tiered health system.

                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

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                  • J Offline
                    J Offline
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on 3 Sept 2020, 20:58 last edited by
                    #26

                    I’m not understanding your point but you can have a hybrid public-private system that is universal. Like the UK.

                    Thank you for your attention to this matter.

                    D 1 Reply Last reply 3 Sept 2020, 22:34
                    • J jon-nyc
                      3 Sept 2020, 20:58

                      I’m not understanding your point but you can have a hybrid public-private system that is universal. Like the UK.

                      D Offline
                      D Offline
                      Doctor Phibes
                      wrote on 3 Sept 2020, 22:34 last edited by
                      #27

                      @jon-nyc said in And Andrew Sullivan is leaving NY Mag:

                      Like the UK.

                      I hear lots of terrible things about the UK's system, mostly from Americans and the Daily Mail, however my own personal experience of it has been quite positive.

                      I was only joking

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                      • J Offline
                        J Offline
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on 3 Sept 2020, 23:02 last edited by
                        #28

                        Well, I wasn’t suggesting a clone of the NHS so much as a private system in parallel with a public one.

                        Thank you for your attention to this matter.

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                        • L Offline
                          L Offline
                          Loki
                          wrote on 3 Sept 2020, 23:16 last edited by
                          #29

                          My only opposition to universal care is that people think it is going to look like the insurance they have now. Those with insurance won’t love it, they will end up spending more between their taxes and the cost of private.

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                          • D Offline
                            D Offline
                            Doctor Phibes
                            wrote on 4 Sept 2020, 12:10 last edited by
                            #30

                            I seem to think that when I lived in Canada, the money I paid for Ontario Health was a fraction of what I'm now paying for private - and I don't even know the full cost here as my employer picks up a big chunk of it.

                            I was only joking

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                            • J Offline
                              J Offline
                              jon-nyc
                              wrote on 4 Sept 2020, 12:12 last edited by
                              #31

                              Well to be fair you didn’t know the full cost there either because the government picked up most of it.

                              Thank you for your attention to this matter.

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