Question for the Democrats here

Aqua Letifer · wrote on 25 Aug 2020, 15:18

These are excerpts from the DNC platform:

We will take a comprehensive approach to embed racial justice in every element of our governing agenda, including in jobs and job creation, workforce and economic development, small business and entrepreneurship, eliminating poverty and closing the racial wealth gap, promoting asset building and homeownership, education, health care, criminal justice reform, environmental justice, and voting rights.

Hate and its symbols have no home in America. Democrats believe that we can only build a more just and equitable future if we honestly reckon with our history and its legacy in the present. We support removing the Confederate battle flag and statues of Confederate leaders from public properties. We recognize Black history has too often been intentionally suppressed or excluded from our history books, and will invest in recovering, celebrating, and highlighting Black history as American history.

The extreme gap in household wealth and income between people of color—especially Black Americans, Latinos, Native Americans, and certain Asian American and Pacific Islander communities—and white families is hurting our working class and holding our country back. Democrats are committed to improving economic mobility for people of color.

It sounds like they're suggesting the following:

Job creation for blacks is a priority. Whites are on their own. And if hiring practices discriminate against whites, well, job creation for blacks are a priority, so, fine.
"Highlighting Black history" could mean ignoring white history, but that's okay, because black history has often been intentionally suppressed, so whatever. Also, seems like they think all Confederates were terrible human beings due to their being Confederate.
If we make it harder for whites to have income mobility and easier for Blacks, that'd be a fair and just thing.

So my question is why in the hell I personally am supposed to vote for these people.

I'm serious about that. It's an honest question. But obviously I have concerns.

Mik · 25 Aug 2020, 15:36

They have been saying various flavors of this for 60 years, especially the first and last points. The history thing is just a new fabric in the window dressing they have been selling all that time.

Horace · wrote on 25 Aug 2020, 15:31

Your inherent advantage due to your white skin supersedes the institutionalized disadvantage the Democrat platform will work to create. You will still come out on top, just not quite as much as you would have otherwise. To be against this platform is thus evil of you. So to your question of why would you vote Democrat, it is of course to establish that you are not evil. It is the burden of people with white skin to establish that they are not evil. The way to do that is to vote Democrat. If you refuse to do that, well, you're just making this whole process much harder than it needs to be.

LuFins Dad · M Mik 25 Aug 2020, 15:29

@Mik said in Question for the Democrats here:

They have been saying various flavors of this for 60 years, especially the first and last points. The history thing is just a new fabric in the window dressing they have been selling all that time.

I disagree. I think what we are seeing is a tripling down on the already failed programs...

jon-nyc · 25 Aug 2020, 16:18

Party platform documents haven’t been relevant for decades.

The reason to vote heavily for Biden is a last ditch effort to save the Republican Party.

Horace · 25 Aug 2020, 16:17

jon can you expand on your notion that four more years would do existential damage to the Republican party that the previous four years hadn't done?

Aqua Letifer · H Horace 25 Aug 2020, 15:54

@Horace said in Question for the Democrats here:

jon can you expand on your notion that four more years would do existential damage to the Republican party that the previous four years hadn't done?

I second a further explanation. Not because I don't get it, just want to hear jon's explanation.

And my question is: what to do with the Democratic party?

Jolly · wrote on 25 Aug 2020, 16:18

@jon-nyc said in Question for the Democrats here:

Party platform documents haven’t been relevant for decades.

The reason to vote heavily for Biden is a last ditch effort to save the Republican Party.

Which is why I gave Ax the answer I did on platforms. However...It seems as if current legislation and public actions by Dems do support those platform statements, So Aqua's question is pertinent.

jon-nyc · 25 Aug 2020, 16:39

Obviously the idea would be for them to be forced to rethink Trumpism and repudiate it. As for 'what's wrong with Trumpism' we've been discussing that for 4 years and no doubt will continue to do so.

AL - I can certainly see a time when the Dems put up a true believer in a post-liberal society and we need to do the same to them. That could even happen in 2024. All the more reason we need to restore sanity to the GOP as a counterpoint. In the mean time Biden is the candidate, regardless of how much Trump is pretending it's AOC or Sanders.

FWIW I'm not optimistic about either project. I view the rise of social media as a Gutenberg-level destabilizing force that could take a generation or two to find some new equilibrium and will likely take many or most of our institutions down before it does so. ~~Buy some bitcoin and/or gold and do your part to stave it off as long as possible.~~

Horace · wrote on 25 Aug 2020, 16:39

@jon-nyc said in Question for the Democrats here:

Obviously the idea would be for them to be forced to rethink Trumpism and repudiate it. As for 'what's wrong with Trumpism' we've been discussing that for 4 years and no doubt will continue to do so.

Have we? I see it as a discussion about whether to focus on the policy ramifications of "Trumpism" while you happily participate in the effort to focus on what an evil clown he is personally, and so obviously duh he needs to be voted out I mean who could possibly think otherwise omg.

jon-nyc · wrote on 25 Aug 2020, 16:48

We've done it a lot. Here's one little example:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/the_new_coffee_room/viewtopic.php?p=1491639#p1491639

Now that was just off the top of my head, given time I could and would come up with a larger list. And then you could tell me why all those are all good and/or don't affect people's bedtime routine or whatever.

Or I could go eat some lunch.

Aqua Letifer · wrote on 25 Aug 2020, 16:53

Obviously the idea would be for them to be forced to rethink Trumpism and repudiate it. As for 'what's wrong with Trumpism' we've been discussing that for 4 years and no doubt will continue to do so.

@jon-nyc Okay, but do you think Trumpism is more of a threat than today's liberalism?

On the one hand, I really can't square that based on my overall experiences in my professional life in the past five years. We've already taken the first steps to make white males the new golchomag in this country. It's already happened. Sure we aren't stealing property or anything yet, but the first steps are already behind us. We've already decided that white male problems, whatever they are, are to be sneered at, and minorities are the ones to defend. I see that all the time at work. It's been like that for the past decade, and I've changed jobs a lot.

On the other hand, I'm open to the possibility that my personal experiences aren't representative. I can be convinced otherwise. But I have real fears about voting in a party whose members have made no bones about who they support and who they want to vilify. I don't see Biden standing up to that.

Trump on the other hand, while an anomaly, doesn't appear to be threatening my future to as great an extent. But like I said, I'm willing to be convinced otherwise. I'm trying to set up a more accurate and complete comparison model.

Horace · 25 Aug 2020, 18:19

@jon-nyc So to be clear, you reject my characterization of your stance against Trumpism as having mostly to do with personal dislike, because your dislike is coincidental to what really matters, which is policy?

"Trumpism" is an interesting word because it presupposes there is a system there that must be defeated, rather than an individual man. But people who use that word are only interested in defeating the individual. The word itself is a head-fake.

Horace · wrote on 25 Aug 2020, 17:04

Wikipedia has a Trumpism entry.

Ideology
Trumpism started its development predominately in Donald Trump's 2016 presidential campaign. It denotes a populist political method that suggests nationalistic answers to complex political, economic and social problems and is intended to mobilize the disenfranchised[citation needed] of the growing social inequality, with stated opposition to the established political establishment.[vague] Ideologically, it has a right-wing populist accent,[3] whereby Trump's political style also shows traits of authoritarianism.[4]

if I had to guess, I'd guess that an idiot wrote that. My favorite turn of phrase was 'established political establishment'. I also appreciated the misuse of the word "whereby".

Copper · wrote on 25 Aug 2020, 17:45

You aren't going to take my wealth without a fight

And telling me that my skin color is bad doesn't change that

Larry · wrote on 25 Aug 2020, 18:13

@jon-nyc said in Question for the Democrats here:

Party platform documents haven’t been relevant for decades.

The reason to vote heavily for Biden is a last ditch effort to save the Republican Party.

The Republican party is in the best shape it's been in in years. You just want the Country Club republicans who whisper sweet nothings to conservatives and then crawl in bed with the democrats to be back in charge of the Republican party.

People can conjure up in their minds all kinds of "reasons" to justify something. But the only real reason to ever vote for Biden is A. You're a moron, or B. You are an enemy of the State. For that matter, that applies to voting for ANY democrat.

Larry · H Horace 25 Aug 2020, 16:57

@Horace said in Question for the Democrats here:

@jon-nyc So to be clear, you reject my characterization of your stance against Trumpism as having mostly to do with personal dislike, because your dislike is coincidental to what really matters, which is policy?

"Trumpism" is an interesting word because it presupposes there is a system there that must be defeated, rather than an individual man. But people who use that word are only interested in defeating the individual. The word itself is a head-fake.

Yes. The Left can't function without labeling everything. Everything they do is designed to divide. Separate it out, put a label on it, stuff it into a box and then attack the label.

jon-nyc · wrote on 25 Aug 2020, 18:53

Larry:

But the only real reason to ever vote for Biden is A. You're a moron, or B. You are an enemy of the State. For that matter, that applies to voting for ANY democrat.

Also Larry:

The Left can't function without labeling everything. Everything they do is designed to divide. Separate it out, put a label on it, stuff it into a box and then attack the label.

Larry · wrote on 25 Aug 2020, 19:04

You having trouble following the plot?

Jolly · 25 Aug 2020, 20:08

I think the thing for the undecided voted to do, is ask themselves what the country would look like after four years of Biden. Or the more likely scenario of a years of Biden and three years of Harris.

Californication of the country would be the least harm that could happen...

So, what would the country look like after four more years of Trump?

The New Coffee Room

Question for the Democrats here