Piano upgrade time
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I just received the latest Larry Fine 2024 addendum for Piano Buyer. Hannah Beckett is now the editor. I share with you all the SMP prices Larry came up with for all the 7' models that are out there. SMP is suggested maximum price that he created based on profit margins that have been applied to published wholesale prices. Where wholesale prices are unavailable, Larry (hannah) has made a reasonable attempt to estimate a piano's SMP from other sources. I am only listing pianos in the size range I am looking for and their basic polished ebony or satin model prices.
Although I have yet to try most of these brands, I will be able to knock out Mason Hamlin, Kawai, Shigeru, Bluthner, and Estonia in about 10 days on a trip to Orange County, walking distance from Disneyland. After preliminary research on the internet, I am kind of excited to get my hands on the Kawais. They look to be one of the best if not the best bang for buck piano out there.
C. Bechstein
academy series
A208 6'10" 89,900
concert series
b212 6'11" 180,000Bluthner
model 4 6'10" 149,293Bosendorfer
214vc 7'0" 182,998
225 7'0" 214,998Boston
gp-215 7'1" 64,900Brodmann
pe212 7'0' 44,380Cunningham
grandchamber7'0" 46,290
grandconcert7'0" 44,790Estonia
L210 6'10" 70,025
l225 7' 4" 83,027Fandrich & Sons
212-e 7'0" 32,650Fazioli
f212 7'0" 181,700August Forster
215 7'2" 96,500Grotian
ConcertoG208 6'10" 96,000Haessler
h210 6'10" 100,712Kawai
GX6 BLK 7'0 73,194
GX7 BLK 7'6" 84,623Kawai Shigeru
SK6L 7'0" 105,730
SK7L 7'6" 117420Mason Hamlin
BB 7'0" 117,888Petrof
P210 Pasat 6'10" 154,738Pramberger
jp-208b 6'10" 41,289Ritmuller
gh212r 7'0" 66,961Ronish
210k 6'10.5" 105,673Sauter
220 7'3" 153,000Schimmel
classic
c213 trad 7'0" 78,366
konzert
k219 7'2" 108,358Seiler
se-214 7'0" 148,293Steingraeber & Son
c-212 7'0" 235,565Steinway & Son
B 6'10.5" 138,800
Hamburg
B-211 6'11" 136,714Yamaha
C6X 7'0" 69,423
S6X 7'0" 100,391
CF6 7'0" 133,358 -
what year of Kawai and what sizes did you try?
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This post is deleted!
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what year of Kawai and what sizes did you try?
@NobodySock I tried every piano known to mankind in 2017 and 2018, including (Shigeru) Kawai.
What I liked most about the SK was the bass. Very rich and powerful. What made me chose the Yamaha CF in the end was that it allowed me to bring out singing melodies better. But it was a close call, and price-wise the SK was clearly better. It's amazing value for the money (I remember that I could easily negotiate 30% down from list price or something).
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@NobodySock I tried every piano known to mankind in 2017 and 2018, including (Shigeru) Kawai.
What I liked most about the SK was the bass. Very rich and powerful. What made me chose the Yamaha CF in the end was that it allowed me to bring out singing melodies better. But it was a close call, and price-wise the SK was clearly better. It's amazing value for the money (I remember that I could easily negotiate 30% down from list price or something).
@Klaus said in Piano upgrade time:
@NobodySock I tried every piano known to mankind in 2017 and 2018, including (Shigeru) Kawai.
What I liked most about the SK was the bass. Very rich and powerful. What made me chose the Yamaha CF in the end was that it allowed me to bring out singing melodies better. But it was a close call, and price-wise the SK was clearly better. It's amazing value for the money (I remember that I could easily negotiate 30% down from list price or something).
Oh , it's been some time since your piano trials. after poring over every youtube video comparing pianos Shigeru is definitely still raved about, but his cheaper brother Kawai RX has come along a ways to offer what I believe may be something close enough but for much less, but will see for sure in my piano visit at a store that is going to have lined up for me RX6 RX7 SK6 SK7 Mason BB, Estonia l215 l225, and a Bluthner model 4 just cuz. lol. The dealer knows my situation and the likelihood of my waiting to purchase in mainland Italy to avoid shipping and duty charges if purchased here. He went on about how they take care of the shipping themselves and it goes straight to a container in Long Beach for its long voyage. It will be interesting to see his offers made for any of the models I get serious about. I have my Italian friend (we both belong to a FB Roland Ax Edge Keytar group) and he is a tuner by trade, who plans to get price quotes for me from the big piano store in Naples to see what price differences I may be dealing with. They have Kawai including Shigeru but no Estonias. Our piano man from Virginia has given me some solid advice as well as incredibly gracious offers if I chose to go with a rolls royce. I wish I was a little more loaded! Nothing is decided at this point but we are getting closer.
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As you know, I had opportunity to test drive a new Steinway B here locally a couple months ago. I said before and I will say it again, it was a divine thing to play on and that if it became my forever piano, I would die a happy man. The dealer for whom I have yet to meet as she was not present when I made my visit has made numerous attempts to get me to come back and even hinting that she is prepared to offer me a price that I would find most agreeable. For one reason or another, I have yet to come back to their gallery to talk turkey. Mostly because I feel it important to sample other brands before making such a heady decision. I have taken some time to try to glean what these brands can be had for walking out the door but there is still much mystery to those bottom lines for which I am sure there are many variables involved. Today, Isabella (she is 21 and the daughter of the gallery owner), has texted me and I will just repost our messages here:
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That B left the building shortly after I sampled it. Another one came onto the floor shortly thereafter and is also now sold but still on the floor available for anyone to try. She started out by asking how I am doing and we exchanged pleasantries first, here is what followed:
Me: Do you have another B on the floor:
Her: There's one on the way, but the one we have on the floor currently is sold. Come try it out and let's discuss further purchase.
Me: Boy, if I bought a B, the only other hands touching it would be the movers. Lol. Ok, I will stop by next if i can. This is my last week of working for a living as I am a federal employee who will be turning in his laptop after 41 years work. They're going to pay me to not work anymore for almost the next 9 months!
Her: So I can have a better understanding, you will be leaving for Italy soon? Are you planning to purchase the piano with us and ship it to Italy? Is this something you are planning to do now? If you are ready, let's make an appointment either this week or next so that I can go over numbers with you. It would be easiest for us to keep the piano crated as it comes from New York and ship it directly to Italy .
Me: No, I am planning on moving to Italy in January 2026. The decision of where to buy my forever piano is still up in the air. There are pros and cons either way. Transport costs and duty tax are the cons if purchased here. but the 22% VAT tax on any purchase in Europe is a Con for purchase on that side of the world. At this point, it is near impossible to know which way saves me the most money.
Her: We can streamline this transaction to be both simple and cost effective for you.
- you will not pay sales tax (8.33%) which offsets the shipping cost to Italy.
- A Steinway B Polished Ebony is en route to Fresno, and I have approval to offer it for under $90K as a significant discount if purchased before April 1st. Again, since the piano is going to Italy, you will not pay sales tax. If you are serious about acquiring a top tier piano at a great price, this is an opportunity you shouldn't miss. Please let me know how you'd like to proceed.
Me: (2 hours later as I was falling asleep in bed for my nap) My silence is only because you have given me a huge bite of steak to chew on.
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As you can see from Larry Fine's 2024 addendum, he has placed the New York Steinway B at an SMP price of $138,800. This is not MSRP, this is Suggested Maximum Price. Now after listening to Klaus's piano story of a few years back, he has given me the notion that these pianos can normally be haggled down to 30% off list price. Not quite sure what list price is defined as though.
The Blue Book of Pianos denotes what is called Manufacture Suggested List Price for the B at $95,600.
And finally, Piano Price Point website only denotes an MSRP for the B at $142,900.
Are we confused yet?? -
@Mik said in Piano upgrade time:
Wed in haste, repent in leisure. Lots of pianos in the world.
As a fond disciple of JRR Tolkein, i remember many words of truth supplied by him through his characters. One of them being a creature called an Ent. I could type his name here but it would literally take me a dozen years typing at 100words per minute to do so. Let’s make it simple for we humans though and call him Treebeard for now. Probably the most sage character in the saga of the war for the ring that ended the third age of middle earth. I wont list all of his sage here except for one theme he always harped on about when it came to us beings that do not grow leaves and branches. Hasty he called us. And it was not a term of endearment, not at all. It was a deficiency in us that usually led to bad results. As a result, i try to emulate the ways of this ent, this caretaker of nature, this hater of all things tyrannical, this soft soul for those who display goodness in character. Hasty is the one thing i try to avoid at this latter stage of life, but i do thank you for the kind reminder Sir Mik of the river Cleveland.
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As you can see from Larry Fine's 2024 addendum, he has placed the New York Steinway B at an SMP price of $138,800. This is not MSRP, this is Suggested Maximum Price. Now after listening to Klaus's piano story of a few years back, he has given me the notion that these pianos can normally be haggled down to 30% off list price. Not quite sure what list price is defined as though.
The Blue Book of Pianos denotes what is called Manufacture Suggested List Price for the B at $95,600.
And finally, Piano Price Point website only denotes an MSRP for the B at $142,900.
Are we confused yet??@NobodySock said in Piano upgrade time:
As you can see from Larry Fine's 2024 addendum, he has placed the New York Steinway B at an SMP price of $138,800. This is not MSRP, this is Suggested Maximum Price. Now after listening to Klaus's piano story of a few years back, he has given me the notion that these pianos can normally be haggled down to 30% off list price. Not quite sure what list price is defined as though.
The Blue Book of Pianos denotes what is called Manufacture Suggested List Price for the B at $95,600.
And finally, Piano Price Point website only denotes an MSRP for the B at $142,900.
Are we confused yet??I'm not an expert on this at all (maybe @LuFins-Dad can say more about this) but my impression is that the amount of wiggle room depends a lot on the manufacturer. I seem to remember that Steinway usually doesn't offer much discount, but Kawai and Shigeru Kawai can often be had for 30+% below list price. That's at least the situation over here in Germany.
