A view from England
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wrote on 23 Feb 2025, 22:09 last edited by Doctor Phibes
Eden glanced at a map of Europe and said: “England is such a small island.” Stalin replied: “Yes, a small island, but a lot depends on it.” Those were the days!
Not the point of the article I know, but no they fucking weren't 'the days'. Those were in fact the days (1935) the British government spent appeasing Hitler.
You'd think a historian, as this guy apparently is, would know better. He might also consider that the British policy of 1930 isn't something that worked very well at all, and probably isn't something that should be repeated.
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Eden glanced at a map of Europe and said: “England is such a small island.” Stalin replied: “Yes, a small island, but a lot depends on it.” Those were the days!
Not the point of the article I know, but no they fucking weren't 'the days'. Those were in fact the days (1935) the British government spent appeasing Hitler.
You'd think a historian, as this guy apparently is, would know better. He might also consider that the British policy of 1930 isn't something that worked very well at all, and probably isn't something that should be repeated.
wrote on 23 Feb 2025, 22:32 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in A view from England:
He might also consider that the British policy of 1930 isn't something that worked very well at all, and probably isn't something that should be repeated.
Sounds like the beginnings of a plan. So, escalate against Russia? Push them back more forcefully, until they leave Ukraine alone?
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wrote on 23 Feb 2025, 22:39 last edited by
Shucks, Europe can't even decline to buy Russian natural gas.
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wrote on 23 Feb 2025, 22:48 last edited by Doctor Phibes
@Jolly said in A view from England:
Shucks, Europe can't even decline to buy Russian natural gas.
Britain gets almost all of its imported gas from Norway and the US, and produces a significant amount of its own, so that doesn't really apply here.
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@Jolly said in A view from England:
Shucks, Europe can't even decline to buy Russian natural gas.
Britain gets almost all of its imported gas from Norway and the US, and produces a significant amount of its own, so that doesn't really apply here.
wrote on 23 Feb 2025, 23:45 last edited by Jolly@Doctor-Phibes said in A view from England:
@Jolly said in A view from England:
Shucks, Europe can't even decline to buy Russian natural gas.
Britain gets almost all of its imported gas from Norway and the US, and produces a significant amount of its own, so that doesn't really apply here.
Kinda, sorta.
The problem is that the Europeans have regulated themselves into an economic rathole (see Home Depot thread) and do not have the economic strength to give the Ukrainians what they need to fight, which is around $100B worth of equipment...Front line equipment, not things like F-16's with first generation radar. They also lack the moral fiber to send troops to Ukraine and get into a shooting war with the Russians.
They want Uncle Sugar to shoulder most of the financial burden and they would be tickled for us to send troops to Ukraine to "keep the peace" Sorry folks, we've got bigger fish to fry in the Pacific. China could be an economic and/or military threat to the U.S.
The U.S. is simply not in shape to continue to be the Post-WW2 world policeman.
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wrote on 23 Feb 2025, 23:55 last edited by Renauda
They want Uncle Sugar to shoulder most of the financial burden and they would be tickled for us to send troops to Ukraine to "keep the piece". Sorry folks, we've got bigger fish to fry in the Pacific. China could be an economic and/or military threat to the U.S.
Then why shake down the Ukrainians for their wallet while Putin and his thugs are breaking their knees in the alley out back of the restaurant?
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They want Uncle Sugar to shoulder most of the financial burden and they would be tickled for us to send troops to Ukraine to "keep the piece". Sorry folks, we've got bigger fish to fry in the Pacific. China could be an economic and/or military threat to the U.S.
Then why shake down the Ukrainians for their wallet while Putin and his thugs are breaking their knees in the alley out back of the restaurant?
wrote on 24 Feb 2025, 00:25 last edited by@Renauda said in A view from England:
Then why shake down the Ukrainians for their wallet while Putin and his thugs are breaking their knees in the alley?
I don't think that's the plan. Trup doesn't much care who started the war, he's interested in ending it--to America's advantage. Trump's praising Puting to get him to do what he wants. It is definitely not in Putin's interest to stop the war but if Putin gets buttered up enough he just might. Putin has a war economy going with high inflation. If he stops making tanks and brings back a half a million (?) young men who know how to use guns to no jobs he's going to be in a lot of trouble. I'm sure Putin will try to rev up the petro industry but if Trump is smart he's flood the market with low cost gas and oil and depress the world prices. That will cause some consternation.
Meanwhile back in Ukraine the US will be mining minerals (a very miniscule part of the Ukraine economy) but Putin can't interfere with America getting it's rare earths, so it will be safe from another invasion and the so their agriculture and IT business can flurish.
Anyway, that's the way I hope it will go.
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@Renauda said in A view from England:
Then why shake down the Ukrainians for their wallet while Putin and his thugs are breaking their knees in the alley?
I don't think that's the plan. Trup doesn't much care who started the war, he's interested in ending it--to America's advantage. Trump's praising Puting to get him to do what he wants. It is definitely not in Putin's interest to stop the war but if Putin gets buttered up enough he just might. Putin has a war economy going with high inflation. If he stops making tanks and brings back a half a million (?) young men who know how to use guns to no jobs he's going to be in a lot of trouble. I'm sure Putin will try to rev up the petro industry but if Trump is smart he's flood the market with low cost gas and oil and depress the world prices. That will cause some consternation.
Meanwhile back in Ukraine the US will be mining minerals (a very miniscule part of the Ukraine economy) but Putin can't interfere with America getting it's rare earths, so it will be safe from another invasion and the so their agriculture and IT business can flurish.
Anyway, that's the way I hope it will go.
wrote on 24 Feb 2025, 00:36 last edited by Renauda….Anyway, that's the way I hope it will go.
I get that and I would hope so as well although it does turn Ukraine into a vital interest of the USA. Not something the Kremlin would find at all acceptable. In fact quite the opposite.
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@Renauda said in A view from England:
Then why shake down the Ukrainians for their wallet while Putin and his thugs are breaking their knees in the alley?
I don't think that's the plan. Trup doesn't much care who started the war, he's interested in ending it--to America's advantage. Trump's praising Puting to get him to do what he wants. It is definitely not in Putin's interest to stop the war but if Putin gets buttered up enough he just might. Putin has a war economy going with high inflation. If he stops making tanks and brings back a half a million (?) young men who know how to use guns to no jobs he's going to be in a lot of trouble. I'm sure Putin will try to rev up the petro industry but if Trump is smart he's flood the market with low cost gas and oil and depress the world prices. That will cause some consternation.
Meanwhile back in Ukraine the US will be mining minerals (a very miniscule part of the Ukraine economy) but Putin can't interfere with America getting it's rare earths, so it will be safe from another invasion and the so their agriculture and IT business can flurish.
Anyway, that's the way I hope it will go.
wrote on 24 Feb 2025, 01:42 last edited by@Tom-K said in A view from England:
but if Trump is smart he's flood the market with low cost gas and oil and depress the world prices.
I think that's what Trump wants. Cheap energy. Preferably with American companies, if he can get it.
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wrote on 24 Feb 2025, 02:01 last edited by Renauda
If at all Trump can fool the market, it will be as it always has been, short lived.
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wrote on 24 Feb 2025, 05:12 last edited by
So Ukraine joining NATO is a needless American provocation, but us essentially planting the American flag on Ukrainian mineral fields is hunky dory.
I really don’t get this.
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So Ukraine joining NATO is a needless American provocation, but us essentially planting the American flag on Ukrainian mineral fields is hunky dory.
I really don’t get this.